Hiring For Good Ep. 7 with Amina Moreau

Hiring for Good

Start-Ups are a world unto themselves, and the unique skill set required of successful founders at early-stage or pre-revenue companies is both demanding and unforgiving. What a pleasure it was for us to sit down with Amina Moreau, founder of Radious, a start-up that provides collaborative workspaces to companies embracing the “office” environment of a post-COVID present and the future of the way people work.

Amina has a gift and passion for bringing ideas to life through the art of story and her professional history and start-up endeavors are strongly rooted in this tradition. As a result, our conversation offers listeners an engaging narrative that proceeds from one “chapter” to the next, with Amina providing insight into the lessons she has learned along the way. Juggling responsibility to both her teams and her creative vision is not easy, but Amina’s respectful and encouraging approach to leadership is truly inspiring. We hope you enjoy our discussion with Amina as much as we did!

About Radious: Radious is an online platform that turns houses, apartments, and other residential properties into collaborative workspaces — rentable by the day. Our on-demand workspaces are used for everything from company off-sites and weekly meetings to everyday in-person work. It’s a flexible way to get people together and offer close-to-home workplace options, without all the costs and commitment of a traditional office.

Amina Moreau Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amina-moreau

Radious Website: https://radious.pro/

Tanis Morris: Director of Business Development at Acumen Executive Search Email: tanis@acumenexecutivesearch.com

Suzanne Hanifin: President at Acumen Executive Search Email: suzanne@acumenexecutivesearch.com

Acumen Executive Search, Portland, Oregon, is proud to present the Hiring For Good Podcast. Follow Acumen Executive Search to be notified of new episodes.

Hiring for Good Podcast Transcript

0:00 good morning everyone we have a wonderful guest with us today I’m welcoming Amina Moreau of

0:07 Radious uh she is the co-founder and CEO of the organization Amina we’re so happy

0:12 to have you here with us today thanks for having me thanks for being at Hiring for Good um you know typically when we

0:18 start these conversations we always just ask you to tell us a little bit about

0:23 you know your company today and then your journey of uh how you how you arrived how you arrived at the table yup well

0:32 we can probably all agree that the nature of work has changed pretty darn dramatically since

0:38 the pandemic and my new company Radious is a pandemic born idea pretty much a a

0:46 direct response to the shift towards remote and more flexible work so in all

0:54 of the headlines all of the data that I have been seeing the world is pointing to a more flexible future mmhm employees

1:02 having more choice over not just where they work but also when and

1:08 how and so what my platform does is allows for companies teams individuals

1:16 to come together on a much more occasional basis because nowadays if

1:22 we’re working from home for many it works great but we’re also social beings

1:28 and it’s nice to be together in person from time to time but in my view it really doesn’t make sense to pay for an

1:33 office s days a week if your team is only using it once or twice but I do

1:40 also believe that there is value in occasionally being together there’s a reason that the three of us are together

1:46 sitting at this table versus doing a recording over Zoom not to knock Zoom I

1:52 use it every day for a lot of things but there’s value right in having shaken hands and having this iners experience

2:00 so what my platform does is offers up flexible workspaces that are right in

2:07 people’s neighborhoods cutting down on the commute but they can be booked by the day by the week by the month

2:14 depending on what your needs are so it’s incredibly flexible but the most unique part of it is that it’s not just your

2:22 average corporate office that’s offered on this flexible basis these are people’s homes so it’s almost like an

2:28 Airbnb style but instead of overnight accommodations you’re renting a home

2:33 that has a meeting table in one room that has AV for a presentation in

2:38 another room might have a private office where you can escape to to take a call a backyard for coffee break or team

2:45 building and the idea is that you’re getting to know your neighbors and you’re bringing people together in much

2:52 warmer and more unique settings than a typical corporate conference room so

2:58 please tell us how you came up with this this idea most people think that the idea came from my needs as an employer

3:07 wanting to bring teams back together or even reading the Tea Leaves of how the future of work was evolving but the

3:13 initial spark for the idea actually came from my experience as an Airbnb host so

3:19 it was August 2020 we’re still in lockdowns and my partner and I have an

3:25 Airbnb space in the lower level of our house great little business supplements

3:30 our income wonderful pandemic hits and we shut down okay it’s temporary but

3:36 then once the authorities say that we can reopen we don’t feel comfortable doing that because we’re still in a

3:43 pandemic and let me tell you the idea of washing strangers linens yeah during a pandemic is just a little bit too

3:50 intimate for me so we keep it closed but

3:55 that space when it’s active covers about two-thirds of our mortgage wow so we couldn’t kiss that revenue goodbye

4:02 forever so Gabe and I got together we started brainstorming how can we get back to

4:08 hosting in a way that feels safe and it occurred to us that all of our neighbors

4:15 at this time because kids are back are home from school dogs are barking how does a working parent get any work

4:22 done in that kind of environment and the thing about laundry is that in order to

4:29 eliminate it from the equation you have to get rid of the overnight component of hosting but there are no platforms for

4:36 Day only use that exist out there and we’re thinking about our neighbors and their challenges and our challenges and we’re

4:42 like wait a minute what if we just get a better desk in that space upgrade our

4:47 Wi-Fi and start offering it to people in our vicinity that just need an escape so

4:54 they can get a quiet peaceful day of work done wow so we started testing it

5:00 and people in our neighborhood loved it we broached the subject with some of our hosting friends and they were like wait

5:06 a minute there are all kinds of pain points that you eliminate besides just laundry by getting rid of the overnight

5:12 part if people are just coming 9 to 5 and they’re working professionals there’s less risk of parties and property damage

5:17 on all sorts of all sorts of stuff so it was working on a really small scale and

5:24 then in the fall of 2020 companies started making head lines

5:30 about permanent remote work policies canceling big leases and we started

5:35 seeing that the future of work was probably going to be permanently more

5:41 flexible and if we just thought what if this could be a B2B platform instead of

5:47 just a small neighborhood project yeah so we started doing a little market research talk to companies about what

5:53 they anticipated their needs would be post pandemic and it turned out that

5:59 individual escapes for one or two employees while they saw that as a

6:04 benefit it wasn’t their main concern their biggest problem was how do we get

6:10 people back together in person if we no longer have an office right or if we

6:15 still have an office but nobody wants to go right and so we started building a

6:21 platform and we started pivoting our approach from recruiting small spaces for one or two people to spaces for five

6:29 to 15 or so because what we started finding was that it’s really teams that want to

6:34 come together whether it’s once a week or once a quarter or anything in between and I love the idea of making it

6:42 different you’re in someone’s home which brings a whole different vibe and energy

6:49 than being in a high-rise downtown totally I I think that’s a such a unique

6:55 positioning of that we like to say that it’s it’s the amenities of the office

7:00 with all the comforts of home it’s not but I think we might have

7:06 to make it one um because it’s actually really easy to underestimate the

7:11 importance of little things like temperature control my hands for example always cold and so it’s nice to be able

7:19 to turn up the thermostat or if it’s a beautiful day outside open a window have

7:24 natural light which you’re not going to get in a hotel conference room for a retreat right in a in a skyrise like

7:30 you’re mentioning you can’t you can’t get natural fresh air in there you’re just breathing the same recycled air

7:36 over and over again and and I have to say so Acumen we own a little house in

7:42 The Tigard Triangle and it’s the backyard I love going out there in this summer

7:47 and make phone calls and you’re sitting out there and it’s a whole different

7:52 it’s totally different and it’s whether you’re using it for everyday work tasks

7:58 like taking a phone call or you’re doing some team building backyards are such a

8:04 beautiful perk of the platform so are kitchens yes we’ve actually had teams

8:11 hire private chefs to do little cooking tutorials for team building at and then

8:16 everybody gets to do a working lunch together afterwards and eat their creative creations that’s beautiful I

8:22 love that right we even have this one team um they’re an ad agency and one of their teammates is an amateur chef but a

8:30 dang good one and he arrives at 6:00 in the morning brings his own pots and pans

8:37 and knives because you know he’s he takes this seriously even though the house is plenty stocked he brings his

8:43 own and he starts cooking and the whole morning the house increasingly smells

8:49 better and better and better and better go and then they have lunch and and I’ve I’ve been there during their work

8:55 sessions uh partly I just wanted to crash one day and and see what was what was going down and I

9:02 walked in and the aroma was to die for and then I got to have lunch with them

9:07 and then he sent me with pockets full of pastries oh my God I’m like this is the

9:13 future of work it’s not just about maximizing productivity which yes absolutely you want your team to feel

9:20 empowered and productive and Innovative and all the things that we talk about

9:25 when when we’re discussing really what’s great for the bottom line it’s treating

9:31 your people well but it’s also that sense of inclusion that familial

9:36 camaraderie it’s you can absolutely build it online right this is my first time meeting the both of you in person

9:44 right we already have a relationship though because we have interacted in Virtual settings so it’s but this

9:52 in-person experience it catalyzes something it accelerates the relationship a little bit faster I

9:59 we just oh I’m so sorry no no no before we jump jump on just so I can understand your business

10:06 because it’s been now year and a half correct since yeah just a little bit

10:11 over that but yes yeah close where What markets do you serve what do you envision what does what’s your plan look

10:18 like yeah the plan is to eventually be a global platform mmhm

10:24 and really focus on mostly the suburbs mmhm because that’s precisely where

10:30 people live we want to reduce carbon emissions through shortening commutes we want to make it more convenient for

10:37 people so they don’t have to sit in traffic and waste their lives versus

10:44 spending that time with family and on hobbies and whatever other personal development they care

10:49 about we are officially in three markets in Portland Milwaukee Wisconsin I should

10:56 specify Wisconsin because there are a few Milwaukee and then we recently expanded into the

11:02 Bay Area however because so many companies and so

11:07 many more now than pre pandemic are hiring in remote and distributed fashions a lot of our customers who may

11:15 have core teams in those geographies also have clusters of people all across

11:21 the country and we’ve listened so even though we’re still too early as a

11:28 company to officially launch all over the nation we have recently started what

11:35 we’re calling a national curation service so if you’ve got people in St

11:40 Louis or Ashtabula Ohio or New York City

11:45 and you need a space you just ask because we have we’ve gotten pretty darn

11:51 good at recruiting new properties and we can do it fairly quickly and make sure

11:57 that they are outfitted with the workplace amenities that you would expect of

12:02 either a conference room or a typical office and so give us a week or two let

12:08 us know what you need and in that regard we are nationwide that is so interesting

12:14 you know I am an Airbnb host and I have um not only a couple of vacation rentals

12:22 but I have been pushing my husband to um have an Airbnb at our home where we have

12:30 a a secondary um you know ADU and um

12:36 he is uncomfortable with overnight guest but he told me he’s like if we could you

12:43 know rent out the space to a company or something like that that would be great so interesting I mean I I think that there’s probably a a market too that

12:51 would be more open to this that might even like us be already outfitted to support right you know Airbnb but when

12:58 it comes to your private dwelling sometimes you don’t necessarily want overnight guest definitely definitely

13:04 and there’s also a difference between having an ADU in your backyard that is technically a separate building from

13:11 where you actually live and actually renting out your own home and we do have

13:17 about we we did the math a few weeks ago about a third of our hosts have

13:23 properties that they actually live in that they rent out they just leave for the day or maybe they rent them out when

13:29 they’re on vacation or something like that and the reason that that brings me a lot of warm and fuzzies is because it

13:37 helps with housing affordability which is a big issue across the nation yeah but we also have hosts who have

13:45 investment properties and it could be a structure that’s still on the same property but it could also be across

13:52 town and we have a good number of people who

13:57 did start out with Airbnb but we also do have a lot that always wished they could monetize

14:05 their space but they were just like your husband uncomfortable with the overnight component there’s there’s risk that

14:11 comes along with that that is almost completely eliminated when you’re just

14:16 doing it 9 to-5 and so we have plenty of hoes that are like yes for the first

14:22 time I can make a little bit of extra money here with very little work mmhm yeah

14:27 I love it and so here you’ve got these big ambitions to become global but it really does start with not I mean it

14:34 starts with the vision and and building out but it’s about that your team and especially in this high growth

14:42 mode every higher is so important for you so let’s kind of talk about the Journey of your experience and your your

14:53 you know your thoughts about what how to hire that leadership team yeah

14:59 especially when you don’t have a ton of resources mmhm because early-stage startups don’t have deep pockets we’re

15:06 not like a Fortune 500 company and now the good news is that most people

15:13 applying for a job at an early-stage startup they know this already so it’s not a big surprise so it does allow for

15:22 a little bit of self- selection there but it it is a challenge for an

15:30 early startup to find people that are going to be okay with taking a bit of a

15:37 pay cut while also working in an environment that is surrounded by unknowns and

15:44 unknowns are uncomfortable mmhm and that often times need to

15:53 respond in a last-minute fashion because things move quickly at a startup and

15:58 decision also have to make quickly and so it’s an environment that’s not for

16:04 everyone but what I have found is that when you lead with a sense

16:11 of both purpose and transparency it’s a whole lot easier to find those people

16:18 and what I mean by those two things is well starting with purpose I think Simon

16:24 cynic said it best when he said people don’t buy what you do they buy why why

16:29 you do it and so I as a leader first of all of

16:34 all am very open with our team about why I do any of this especially on the

16:39 hardest days because there are some very hard days sometimes I have to ask myself that question like what why did I choose

16:45 this again because it’s very very hard and we have those discussions as a team

16:51 to make sure that everybody is still feeling that sense of fulfillment

16:57 because they believe truly that they are contributing to building something

17:02 bigger than themselves and something that they really believe in and that it’s not just for the payoff for when we

17:10 IPO or get acquired or whatever you know that exit is going to be of course and

17:16 that’s something that our investors care a lot about and certainly it’s a nice Target to aim for but as an

17:24 organization our bigger driver is making an impact in the community mmhm helping

17:29 people feel more fulfilled at work having greater work life balance having an environmental impact and so when

17:35 we’re recruiting those are the things that we’re talking about and the second

17:41 thing is the transparency part so you can probably the way that I’m already sharing you can probably tell that I’m

17:47 I’m an open book and it’s about more than just how I’m feeling but also about the

17:53 nitty-gritty of the business so if you work at Radious you can ask how much money is still in the bank account and

17:58 how that translates into months of runway we can talk about the overall health of the business what the

18:04 fundraising strategy is uh how our sales plan is structured what are the next uh

18:10 features on the on the development list for for the product the more people have an

18:18 understanding of the business the more you cut down on unknowns and when you

18:23 are surrounded by unknowns as an early-stage company that reduces a lot of

18:28 anxiety and it gives people a much greater sense of control over their own situations

18:34 and it leads to just everything being better I mean

18:39 it’s it’s everything from morale and excitement to productivity and just overall effectiveness it’s wonderful and

18:48 and leading people that are drawn to that is also very different you’ve you’ve said

18:54 at one point you know we’re not that large corporate world there is a difference so when you look at

19:01 motivating and leading people what are some things that that

19:07 you consciously do well I’ll give you an example so we

19:13 are hiring for a salesperson right now and as messages are coming

19:21 in the first thing that and right now I am leading the hiring process for this

19:27 particular role the first message that I send back is a note that the the first sentence starts

19:35 with for transparency sake and then I talk about

19:41 the effectively the the compensation reality mmhm and that we are at this stage

19:48 prioritizing performance-based compensation with equity over like a

19:55 huge salary right now that’s not atypical for sales

20:00 anyways but I want to make sure and and the last sentence of that message is I

20:07 just wanted to share that upfront in case it’s a non-starter for you and sending that as the very very

20:15 first response to their inquiry shows a few things one that they can expect

20:23 transparency if they work with us they can expect transparency even if they don’t and we maintain that relation ship

20:29 so that’s one thing we’re kind of establishing some expectations

20:35 here and two that we respect people’s time I mean my time certainly is not

20:42 unlimited but neither is theirs and so if this is a non-starter then let’s save

20:48 everybody some time because that is the universal currency and it is extremely valuable so if it’s a non-starter all

20:55 right let’s wish wish each other well let’s stay connected M and further down the road things may change so let’s keep

21:02 talking but if it does work for you all right let’s take some next steps so

21:08 that’s that’s one example does that answer your question oh absolutely and it’s so funny I wrote down um earlier on

21:14 unknowns and fast decision making and so you’ve really addressed that because I

21:20 think again as you are learning yourself and going into different markets and

21:26 expanding and you know you ha..it is that ambiguity that I think is so unique in a

21:33 startup it is I really value you know we we try to talk to a broad spectrum of

21:39 leaders on this podcast and I think the startup experience is so unique and it’s

21:47 such a wild and crazy ride it draws certain you know it draws a certain

21:53 personality type to it it’s not for everyone you’ve alluded to that already and I think every every leader

22:00 experiences those crises of faith that you have mentioned and um it takes a

22:05 certain level of of grit I think so um tenacity yes and really like believing

22:12 and and then keeping your team motivated so I’m sure this has been an incredibly formative leadership experience for you

22:20 thus far what other experiences in your background have shaped you as a

22:25 leader there have been a lot Radious is my fifth company oh gosh wow

22:33 so you really are that personality so I joke that I’m not a serial entrepreneur

22:38 I’m a chronic entrepreneur because it is a little bit of a disease but

22:45 that my companies are just symptoms of my wanting to put something good out

22:51 into the world in different ways because every company has been in a slightly different space the first four were all in office

23:01 because it was pre-pandemic and that’s just how you did things yes Radious is not at Radious we uh how do we put it I

23:10 don’t like the term eat our own dog food we practice what we preach we use our own products we basically do what we

23:18 think the rest of the corporate world should be doing which is offering

23:23 employees as much freedom and choice as possible because autonomy is an innate

23:29 human need mhm but also giving them the tools

23:35 to to do that which may be more than just relegating them to one room in

23:42 their homes for the rest of their careers and so most of our team is distributed we’ve got people all over

23:48 the country but we come together mostly using Radious spaces when when we want to

23:55 and so I as a leader I have I have lived

24:00 the five day a week in office experience and now I’m growing a company from

24:06 scratch with a remote and flex first philosophy and I can tell you both work

24:14 mmhm but with the way that the the way that desires have

24:21 shifted right the pandemic proved that you don’t have to be in an office 5 days a week in order to be productive and

24:28 effective and so yes the office does work but sentiments are drastically

24:34 different now and I see more benefit in the new

24:39 way than in the old way and so certainly I I could talk your ear off

24:45 all day about all the things that I’ve learned in the 20 years of building five companies but that that’s really a big one is that

24:52 giving people the freedom and trusting in them to know what suits them best and

25:00 then supporting them in that discovery process because not everybody knows right away either some of us are new to

25:07 this um trust trust is huge that it it really is and so just curious because

25:15 we’re reading I’m reading a lot more businesses are saying come back come

25:21 back and there is that resistance and that tension between what do you mean

25:27 come back for how long what does that look like and asking those questions with your crystal

25:34 ball how do you see this kind of playing out well first of all the headlines that

25:41 we’re seeing I’m seeing them too one thing to remember is that the biggest

25:47 companies have the biggest PR megaphones the biggest companies in the

25:53 world also have the greatest real estate holdings yes uhuh okay so when we read

26:00 about an Amazon or a meta or any one of those companies forcing people back X

26:08 days per week it’s important to realize that they are outliers we’re going to be

26:14 reading about them a lot because they’re big companies and it’s easier for them to make headlines but for everyone CEO

26:21 calling people back to the office there are two CEOs at smaller companies quietly stealing their talent yeah

26:31 so there’s a headline side of it the crystal ball side of me says that we are at the

26:38 beginning of a wave a massive wave of lease

26:44 non-renewals all of these hybrid policies that we’re seeing and the mandates they’re happening because

26:51 companies are stuck in leases that they can’t get out of so of course they’re going to try to get butts and seats to

26:59 make the most of an asset that would otherwise be bleeding money and sitting

27:05 empty so I get it but in my opinion no self-respecting CFO is going to stand by

27:13 and watch their company pour money seven days a week into a space that’s only used once or

27:19 twice and so as those lease terms come up company’s downsize we’re already

27:25 starting to see it but between that d downsizing of space and then also a new

27:31 cohort of companies being born startups right now aren’t really signing leases

27:36 cuz it’s cheaper not to let’s put that money into hiring more and better people

27:41 instead and grow the company faster they are forced to learn remote

27:47 and flex management styles and they bring those playbooks into the mainstream as they mature so to me there

27:56 are countless reasons to believe that we’re just in the infancy of flexible and remote work and it’s only going to

28:03 get better and better well and I and we’ve seen even pre-pandemic Tech firms

28:09 startups again part of the sell to higher is look at this flexibility you

28:16 can work anywhere we all learned we have the technology yeah it’s just how do we

28:22 take that missing piece that social piece that you brought up so well and and satisfy that and and having a team

28:31 yes and what a fantastic solution that you’re offering because it makes perfect

28:36 sense yeah I think so many companies they’re looking for a model where they um you know they’ll meet

28:43 socially to to a team building but it’s hard to if they if they let go of their

28:49 lease that can be tricky so it’s it’s really interesting I think it’s what you’re saying really resonates with me yeah

28:56 um I you’ve spoken a little bit about I think your own personal values and how

29:01 you’ve instilled those into your organization sounds like you care a lot about

29:07 sustainability people gathering together to get work done but um in a in a model

29:12 that supports the future of the way that we work uh how do you translate those

29:19 those values that you’ve infused into your company to the broader culture at

29:25 large back to transparency and just talking about it openly

29:33 and making just making sure that everybody is still feeling like we’re

29:40 serving that mission so of course there are the standard exercises that

29:45 companies are supposed to go through Mission Vision Values and all of that stuff for some companies it’s more

29:52 genuine than others some just put it on their wall in vinyl and call it good

29:59 uh the the real work is living them and

30:04 so sometimes sometimes we get asked why don’t you accept commercial spaces onto

30:11 your platform right because we’ve been talking about residential right these are homes and that’s not to say that we

30:17 don’t have any commercial properties on our platform but one of the biggest

30:22 reasons that we don’t have that focus is because they’re usually far away from where people live

30:30 mhm and if it is in our mission to make

30:38 workplace tools more accessible to vulnerable populations and to reduce commute times

30:46 there thereby making it more equitable but also equitable and also more

30:52 sustainable from an environmental perspective then

30:58 there are certain business decisions that we’re going to have to make to stick to that and now of course I think

31:06 this differentiates us from our competitors tremendously because we’re the only ones in North America taking

31:12 this approach but it also means that we actually have to say no to a segment of

31:22 clientele that we could be saying yes to and and part of the key is not trying

31:30 to be everything to everyone mmhm it’s not a popularity contest it is certainly about being popular to the right people

31:37 but also identifying who the wrong people might be and and that also translates to

31:46 investors yes when you’re fundraising it’s kind of like marriage

31:52 yeah you’re signing paperwork to be in business together for the Long Haul decad

31:58 sometimes and you want to make sure that you are aligned certainly on the the

32:04 financial modeling and everything that comes with a business plan but also on why are we doing this

32:13 yeah you’re definitely speaking our love language of of you know getting that

32:18 alignment between goals and values regardless if it’s an employee employer

32:24 relationship partnership relationship investment if that foundation is not

32:31 there it it does it’s not for the long haul it tends to be short lived and I I’ll

32:37 add that another way that we go about it especially when we’re hiring because we’re right in the middle of it right

32:43 now too right so it’s very top of mind for me but we’re not necessarily asking asking explicitly how do you feel about

32:50 climate change you know it’s we’re not necessarily asking that but we are

32:56 definitely looking to see who brings it up yeah partly as a signal of what they

33:04 care about partly also as a signal of how much they’ve learned about our

33:09 company in order to know whether they should be applying or not mmhm and so

33:16 especially when hiring for a sales role as we are right now the way that they sell themselves I

33:22 see as a microcosm of their sales abilities in general 100% of course with the asterisk that sometimes we are the

33:31 plumber with leaky pipes and it’s harder to do for ourselves the thing that we generally do

33:37 for others for a living but a big part of sales is

33:43 prospecting understanding your target and then crafting your messaging in a way that is going to get them to act so

33:50 as part of the recruiting process we’re watching what people do and for those

33:55 people who bring up that they have similar values and and why mhm that is

34:03 an immediate green flag for at least extending the conversation absolutely

34:09 and so for this being your fifth company congratulations and good job you’ve

34:14 probably learned a lot and I think we learn just as much from our successes as

34:19 from our failures what advice or

34:24 what what would you want to share on on your learnings that you would have given

34:30 yourself 10 15 years ago while I wholeheartedly subscribe to

34:39 the fail often or fail fast philosophy sometimes I’m frustrated by

34:46 how those mantras are communicated because not everybody has

34:52 the inner strength and confidence to fail and then bounce back it takes some

34:58 practice actually and some people are are born maybe a little bit more resilient than

35:04 others but I truly believe that it’s a muscle that you can strengthen and

35:09 certainly if if all you do is ever f.. that’s that is kind of a tough

35:16 recipe but if you can put yourself even or or if you’re a parent put your child

35:22 into situations where they have the opportunity to persevere on a repeated

35:29 basis and prove to themselves that they can overcome

35:35 obstacles then that ends up this is why I’m a big fan of kids in sports because

35:41 it just it teaches you so much not just about life but about yourself and I am so thankful to have

35:49 been uh competitive tennis player from the age of seven it’s also a fairly

35:56 solitary sport so it’s kind of all on you to learn how to win and lose

36:02 graciously and overcome all the challenges and over the course of building these

36:09 companies I’ve had to learn how to be even more resilient because there is

36:16 even more failure associated with growing a

36:21 startup than on the tennis court and those failures are higher stakes because

36:27 you’ve got people relying on you to feed their families and

36:34 so I’m a type A personality I am hard on myself I am a recovering

36:41 perfectionist and it is hard absolutely and the advice that you

36:47 sometimes get to not let great be the enemy of good or don’t let perfection be the enemy of great I I have to remind

36:55 myself of that every day because going back to what you said about making decisions quickly sometimes you got to

37:00 just ship it mmhm you can’t go into analysis paralysis mode and tweak every

37:06 little thing and make it perfect you got to just go and test and iterate and sometimes that goes against my nature

37:13 because I want everything to be just so but my team also helps smooth with that and

37:18 that’s going back to that transparency people know that about me and they can also call me on being too too much of a

37:26 per perfectionist Amina we got to just go yeah can we just go okay let’s do it

37:32 I love it you’ve you’ve mentioned some big powerful words that I think as we we

37:37 asked our last question transparency obviously such a core value

37:44 not only of who you are but how your organization operates

37:50 respect straight up say it how it is people are adults let’s stop treating

37:55 them as children trust trust is huge and I think that’s the one piece as we

38:02 evolve out of the pandemic people are learning how to trust yeah and um and I

38:09 think it’s important as a leader and the last one that that you just said is that

38:14 resiliency being resilient I think is a forgotten art over over the years and it is being

38:22 gracious when you don’t always win but also knowing 

38:28 it’s okay so our podcast is called hiring for good and it means a lot of

38:35 things to different people what does it mean to you to me it means doing right by the

38:43 people you bring on your team but also doing good in the world mmhm I am clearly

38:51 a purpose-driven person it’s really hard for me to to do something consistently

38:58 that is either negative or even neutral I I want to feel like I’m leaving the

39:05 world better than when I came into it in some way and you can make bigger impact when

39:14 you surround yourself with amazing people especially people who are better at things than you

39:20 are yeah I love that that’s beautiful yeah you’ve said a lot of really

39:26 powerful things that I’m reflecting on not just as a business person but as a

39:32 mom and and as a human so I appreciate your Insight and thank you so much for

39:38 being with us thank you yeah this is a great conversation thank you thanks for joining us today at

39:45 Hiring for Good if you inspired by our conversation don’t forget to like follow And subscribe wherever you get your

39:51 podcast and if you want to learn more about our executive Search Services check us out at www. hiring for good.net

39:58 or our company website Acumen Executive Search thanks so much and

40:04 don’t forget to join us next time for another in-depth conversation about transformational leadership until then

40:10 have fun