Hiring for Good Podcast Ep . 31
About Helaman Escobar: Dynamic and results-driven executive with a proven track record of building, managing, and scaling complex business units with multimillion-dollar P&L responsibility. Twenty years of management experience with twelve in senior positions. Trained with an MBA, a science degree, and seasoned with the challenges of competitive markets. Adept at driving operational excellence, enhancing efficiency, and leading cross-functional teams to achieve strategic objectives.
Helaman Escobar’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hescobar/
Hiring For Good Website: https://www.hiringforgood.net/
Podcast on Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast…
Tanis Morris: Director of Business Development at Acumen Executive Search, Email: tanis@acumenexecutivesearch.com
Suzanne Hanifin: President at Acumen Executive Search, Email: suzanne@acumenexecutivesearch.com
Acumen Executive Search Website: https://www.acumenexecutivesearch.com/
Hiring for Good Transcript
0:00 Hello everyone and welcome to Hiring for Good podcast as usual I am Tanis Morris
0:06 and with me is my lovely co-host Suzanne Hanifin good morning Tanis good morning and today we have a very special
0:13 guest with us we are honored and privileged to be welcome welcoming Helaman
Escobar. Helaman I had the
0:20 opportunity to meet I guess maybe a couple months ago and um when I heard
0:25 his story I knew he had to be a guest on Hiring for Good. Helaman is a career genomics professional with extensive
0:32 leadership experience and recognition in the field he’s been a high-level leader at Twist Bioscience where he oversaw
0:40 genomic man manufacturing and innovation previously he led translational science initiatives at
0:47 inner mountain precision genomics advancing genomic research for clinical applications
0:52 he’s also contributed to the growth of DNA sequencing at European’s MWG
0:59 operations yes and he’ll explain what all of this means to our audience because honestly
1:05 it’s fascinating uh and he he played a key role there expanding next-generation
1:10 sequencing capabilities his leadership in genomics has continued to drive advancements in personalized medicine
1:17 and biotechnical innovation Helaman thank you so much for being here and good morning good morning it sounds
1:23 really good i want to meet that person it always sounds good well you know when you and I first sat down and had the
1:30 opportunity to talk I was fascinated and actually I’m not going to even try to
1:37 um to explain all of the different reasons that I found your journey so
1:42 interesting because I know our audience will feel the same way but I will ask you to keep it accessible to the
1:49 non-scientific folks because I know um sometimes you know I always get
1:54 intimidated doing the intros for for people with a heavy science background like you but um why don’t you kind of
2:01 start by just telling us your story if if you don’t mind oh of course
2:08 I well I uh everything started in high school for me just to kind of give you
2:14 the background so I’m I’m originally from Brazil so I grew up in St Paulo and
2:19 attended a private French Catholic school but one thing that
2:24 uh really I always had really interest in science but uh just became
2:32 fascinated with some of the biology especially the molecular level things that we were learning and this was in
2:38 the 80s right late 80s so a lot of the genetic genetic engineering things were
2:45 coming out you know uh the technology it was just so exciting and and so I I was
2:51 just completely fascinated by that and then decided I was going to pursue a career and uh in biology you know
2:58 molecular biology so I um I started college in the University of St Paulo and
3:05 eventually later on had the opportunity to come to the United States and finish my degree here so I
3:12 uh got a degree in molecular biology by Brigham Y Young University and in Utah
3:18 and uh early in my career what I did is I I had the opportunity to be uh to
3:26 run service labs in the academic environment and uh this was it’s kind of like a mini
3:34 b business you have inside of university right so we ran uh technology
3:39 instruments and DNA sequencing other analytical um instruments that some something to do
3:47 with DNA in some level and uh and we provided those services to researchers
3:53 at the university outside the university and I’m working closely always with the researchers the the primary
3:59 investigators the different labs at the institution you know these were uh really exciting times because this was
4:07 you know early 2000s is when nextgen sequencing came so we we were using some
4:12 of the traditional technology to analyze DNA mostly DNA sequencing right so this
4:18 is this is a technology that’s almost everybody that works with biology in some degree needs at some point in their
4:25 research right you need uh you might need just a little bit of it or you might need a lot of it um and this kind
4:32 of helps you make sure that your research is progressing in the right way that you have the right piece of DNA
4:38 that you’re producing you know the right proteins that you know that you you uh
4:43 that you are uh creating the right constructs of bacteria i’m trying not to
4:48 be too technical so far anyway so that whole idea of engineering something
4:55 engineering the DNA of something right and and and to make produce something that you need
5:01 uh or to create some kind of mutation that you want to study or to create some kind of protein that you want to study
5:07 uh and even when I was still in college I had the opportunity to work in a lab where what we’re doing is exactly that
5:13 we’re manipulate manipulating bacteria ecoli and we we were uh changing the DNA
5:20 of the bacteria to see what happened in certain genes and how the bacteria behaved and and if if we got kind of the
5:26 phenotype that we want or in other words kind of the behavior that we wanted um
5:31 and so uh this is what I did early in my career was was really exciting and and and and that kind of started me in the
5:39 path to business right because my idea naively was like okay I’m just going to be a researcher i’m going to discover
5:45 something great and I’ll be famous and uh but then when you’re running a lab in a university right you’re kind of
5:52 running a small business you know you have a budget you have to hire people you have to one of the big portions of
5:59 of running a lab inside of university that offers services is that you you
6:04 know you have all your customers which are the scientists and they come in they want to know why something didn’t work
6:10 or or didn’t work what kind of services you can provide how that’s going to help their research uh you know so so you
6:16 become a technical expert on the technology and how to use that technology and then you support them in
6:23 the front end of what they need to do and then in the back you know depending on the type of technology you need to have somebody in your team that can help
6:29 to interpret the results of what you did for that that group so that that was
6:35 pretty exciting you know so I decided to instead of continue on and getting a PhD and and and really staying and becoming
6:43 a full scientist I said well why don’t I get a business degree right because I like this overlap between the science
6:50 and the business you know the aspect those two aspects together and so after a few years running core facilities um I
6:58 that’s what we call those service labs um I ended up getting an MBA right and I
7:04 eventually transitioned to the industry and and I spent several years at u um um
7:12 Eurofins at the time it was called MWG Opera because those were other uh
7:19 companies that Europeans had purchased right and uh and that then we then moved
7:25 I we were in Utah we moved to Alabama which was an unusual place right that’s
7:30 not really a biotech hub uh but they do have Madison Alabama Huntsville they have the Huntsville Alabama Institute which is
7:37 a great great institution with a lot of startup companies you know in genomics and and that’s where I had the genomic
7:45 facility right can I ask a quick just to clarify I think a lot of people don’t
7:52 understand what a big deal Eurofins is or what a massive operation do you mind just saying a few words about that
7:57 because I think it’s really interesting so Eurofins yeah it’s Eurofins has
8:03 hundreds of labs around the world and it’s a company that had acquired over
8:08 many years acquired a lot of specialized labs in different areas and so they have
8:13 labs that do environmental testing food testing uh technical in many ways and
8:20 they also have a division that’s for genomics uh and eventually when I was at Eurofins they also started acquiring
8:27 because the company was big enough they had enough um they have enough leverage to start buying also uh companies that
8:33 were in the clinical business which usually those companies usually acquire
8:38 hire multiple you know and you’re talking about uh hundreds of millions of
8:43 dollars and uh and the Eurofins started to uh acquire some of these companies which
8:48 was fun for me at the time because I was able to be part of some of that M&A
8:54 activity and I I was I I I was I was part of some of the due diligence teams
8:59 and and and when they were looking for businesses in the US they were laboratory based businesses but they
9:05 were they were actually working in the clinical space right so Eurofins um is
9:11 this big conglomerate of a lot of different companies uh they centralize
9:16 some some administrative functions but mostly the companies works to pretty independently
9:23 so even though we were under the umbrella at Eurofins my group was about
9:29 200 people in Huntsville Alabama we worked pretty independently and um and we uh we were
9:36 able to grow that business quite a bit during the years that I was there that was pretty exciting uh and and bring in
9:43 some new technology start some new service lines uh and again I was still overseeing laboratory operations but I
9:51 think there was another completely different layer of really working with other teams that now had a lot of
9:58 resources to do sales to do marketing to do software development uh so I was
10:04 involved in a lot of these we kind of launched some products that are pretty exciting and and successful uh in DNA
10:11 sequencing and uh and I spent several years at Eurofins uh going from you know
10:18 really overseeing mostly the lab but then becoming a more kind of more more
10:24 of a senior position where I I was overseeing several different business lines
10:30 and then what what brought you out west so So eventually you know after several years at Eurofins um we
10:43 uh we ended up moving the company from uh from Alabama to Kentucky so that was
10:48 a process that took a few years and and the reason why is because uh we wanted
10:54 to be close to the FedEx hub so we could uh some of the services some of the critical services we’re offering
11:00 required really fast turnaround time so we could get samples from all over the country overnight flown to uh to
11:09 Kentucky right to Louisville and then we could get them in the lab at 1 or 2 in
11:14 the morning and we processed them the same day wow so that that was that was a that was a important strategic decision
11:20 for the company uh that took a few years because we built a brand new facility um
11:26 in Louisville but once that one that was that was done um and it was a time for
11:32 me to decide do I want to move the family to Kentucky or is is that you know should I look for another
11:38 opportunity and this is where I joined Intermount Healthcare uh and Intermount
11:43 Healthcare was um had a group called the Precision Genomics Froup which was kind of a unique group inside of of a large
11:50 hospital system uh but they were looking for ways to do precision genomics you
11:56 know using uh using samples they had from their biorepositories as well as
12:02 uh some other uh connections I have with within Intermount Healthcare and it was
12:08 kind of really unique thing um a little bit of a detour for me but but I was
12:14 just excited when I met the people they wanted to do the opportunity to build something from help to build something
12:20 from scratch the funding they had available to bring in all the machines because they have hundreds of thousands
12:25 of samples they were planning to do DNA sequencing and and profiling genetic profiling of those samples um it was it
12:33 was just an exciting opportunity and I I I jumped on in moved the family back to southern Utah at that time yeah and you
12:41 know it’s so funny i want to ask all these scientific questions because it’s really kind of above my pay grade but on
12:49 the transition of deciding to go and get your business degree your MBA
12:55 talk about that kind of that shift and why make that shift because a lot of scientists are great scientists they
13:03 don’t necessarily become great business leaders you know what was the
13:08 the you know if it was a mentor or something that kind of made you make
13:13 that decision that’s a great question i I think you
13:19 know after I spent a few years in the lab I you know and I I didn’t consider myself really a scientist i was more of
13:25 a technologist right I was working with a lot of scientists but I was supporting what they were doing through the
13:30 technologies we could provide um I I I probably somewhat naive idea
13:39 of going getting you know staying science getting a
13:44 PhD maybe looking into some you know spending several years working on something really specific
13:51 uh that I didn’t really know exactly what that would be right I think it it a lot of times depends on who you find you
13:59 know within the university you are or the place you go and you got your PhD who what what is a professor uh you know
14:06 what they we that has a space in in in his or her lab and they want you know
14:11 they need another graduate student so I I I just felt like the business to
14:18 understand all the different aspects of of how to run a business was much more interesting to me right and and with the
14:26 idea that I could putting those two together I could
14:31 be more valuable you know and and to to to other companies and and eventually
14:38 maybe maybe have my own business someday right so um and I was at Brigham Y Young
14:45 University at the time and I I’ve been there for a few years and the they had a really amazing program and they have um
14:55 one of the best returns on investments in terms of getting a business degree
15:01 and being also at the university allowed me to even get a better deal on what it
15:06 cost so you know so basically an an education that the return on investment
15:11 on it would have been you know really really affordable yeah i’m I’m
15:17 interested too you know even though you have a strong background in science and
15:23 obviously live in a world of science you’re a business leader and a strategic business leader and so do you feel that
15:31 in this scientific world having that scientific knowledge gives you has has
15:37 given you an edge like have spending spending those those years running the lab and understanding how to build those
15:44 relationships and all that stuff how how fundamental would you say that was in
15:49 shaping who you are today or how did it shape you the the years that you did spend in science no no absolutely i
15:56 think I think you you know if you’re in science or if you’re engineering in in whatever field you are I think you the
16:03 way to start is that you need to be technical in something right you need to
16:09 you need to have some detailed knowledge of of of some field or some technology
16:14 or some process that that you can build upon so so the jobs some of the jobs
16:20 that I landed on were jobs that had been originally um meant or advertised as for PhDs right
16:31 but in reality they had much more of a business aspect to them than really than
16:38 really a science aspect to them you know running running a core facility for example
16:43 uh and so it was a good combination and I think people people realized that that was valuable and I had enough experience
16:50 running and you know being hands-on running that technology running the machines that uh that also brought kind
16:57 of validity to you know what I could bring to the table so so it was it was
17:03 it was a good combination um of things uh it was great for me i think one of
17:09 the important decisions I made early on is that I got into when I was in school I got into a lab pretty
17:15 quickly and I spent several years in in working in a lab and learning a lot so
17:20 by the time I graduated I had already worked with DNA sequencing for a few years right and so I had that hands-on
17:28 experience and that really made a difference you know um and I um I was
17:34 fortunate enough that the college had one an old sequencing machine that tech
17:40 people don’t even remember that the name of the technology anymore it was called Lycore you know and it was very manual
17:47 the way you did the DNA sequencing everything’s like light years away from that not today but at that time you know
17:54 it was a unique opportunity and and I kind of I had that and that that helped me take the first step after I graduated
18:01 it’s amazing and as you go into the business world and transition and you work for a very large you know
18:08 international corporation how did you as a leader bring in those core values that are
18:15 important to you to you know because it is different managing a bunch of technical people
18:23 yeah so talk to us about those values and how you operationalize those in your
18:28 dayto-day business so I am really grateful for uh some some of the leaders some of the bosses that I had so in the academic
18:41 environment um I had to figure out a lot of things by myself but I you know I had
18:47 supportive usually dean of research or some senior faculty person that you know
18:53 it’s technically in charge and you’re running everything for them um the these
18:58 people were very approachable right so I think early on I developed um some
19:05 values or understood some values as being important the the reasons that you need to be approachable you need to
19:10 communicate well you need to collaborate well and then I was fortunate when I did move to Eurofins and other companies I
19:17 had some really terrific bosses that had also a mentality of of being very very
19:23 collaborative right to kind of to kind of bring people together communicate well kind of hash out the problem and in
19:32 a very professional but positive way you know sometimes there were quite challenging when we were counting
19:38 pennies right when I joined that Eurofins lab we were barely breaking even in
19:45 terms of profitability so we had to be extremely careful you know how we
19:50 decided to spend our money in every investment we made so so uh the leadership team that I joined I think
19:57 had that that those early years in and in and kind of the professional environment
20:03 um really kind of shaped my values in terms of you know what do you need to be able to work together as a team uh and
20:11 and then I stuck to those values um and and they were challenged uh later on
20:16 because you know I I worked in other uh environments where uh
20:22 they it was it was a different culture right it was a culture or more you know
20:28 let’s get things done on fear right i’m the boss and this is what I want and I know it’s completely unreasonable what
20:34 I’m asking but it is is kind of how you know how I got things how we we got this
20:40 done in this company uh so so this is um
20:45 I think I’m grateful for for those early leaders that influenced me in terms of
20:53 what I what kind of leader I wanted to be so and you when you are in a
20:59 bigger company uh even if you might be a more of a senior person sometimes you can’t
21:06 completely change the culture and there might things there might be things in the culture that you like and there are
21:11 other things that you might not like but what I’ve always tried to do is that my
21:17 teams and I’ve had large teams reporting to me the people that report to me I
21:23 create an environment where there’s some values that I think are critical and and
21:28 some of them are that you uh you know you have open communication with people
21:35 you know you’re very collaborative in the way you you you you communicate and
21:40 and and look at challenges you’re honest right uh you and people are
21:47 dedicated uh but dedication means also that people
21:52 need to find balance in their lives sometimes right they need to have some work life balance sometimes so I think
21:59 as a leader you need to reward people with flexibility that when you know that
22:07 they’re working hard and they’re being very dedicated sometimes they also need
22:12 a way to to do something you know to to find some that balance this is this is such a
22:18 a first of all I love that philosophy and I’m sure that the people who’ve worked on your teams uh are deeply
22:24 grateful probably just as you are grateful to the the bosses who who mentored you or who showed you this this
22:30 path um when you build teams that when you’re you know when you’re hiring and
22:37 adding to your teams what qualities do you look for in in the people that
22:42 you’re bringing on board that’s a great question Tanis and I I have to
22:48 say hiring can be challenging and a lot of companies don’t
22:55 know how to hire um I’ve been interviewed for pretty senior
23:02 positions where people are talking to me by you know for maybe 15 20 minutes and
23:10 they clearly don’t know what questions they’re going to ask you and I think it all starts on how you
23:17 going to interview people right and to be prepared for that to think about what exactly you want out of that interview
23:23 what are incredical things that you need to know about that person and when when
23:28 I interview people or and in my teams as as we talked about you know how we got
23:35 to find the people that we need I think we look for things beyond just the
23:40 technical training which which is obviously needs to be needs to be there right it needs it needs to be some way
23:46 to vet candidates but but you know position things and questions in a way
23:53 that you can see people are have those same values that I described you know if
23:58 if they can if they’re good in collaborating environments if they comm communicate well you know if they are
24:03 honest about it um if they are true to that experience you know I’ve read I’ve
24:10 read hundreds and hundreds of resumes you know and you can tell right away when people are just completely
24:17 overstating what the kind of experience they have you know I’d rather talk to somebody that can tell me “Look these
24:23 are the things I really know how to do these are the things I love to learn right?” And and have a little bit more
24:29 of that meek attitude and by meek I don’t mean that people need to be uh put themselves down
24:37 it means that they realize you know that they can learn from other people right you know they can bring strength to the
24:44 table but they also realize that there’s a lot that they can learn right and and they bring another thing that I look for
24:52 people is just an enthusiasm you know real enthusiasm they’re just
24:57 passionate about really wanting to help and and willing to also wear different
25:04 hats when needed especially in smaller teams right and no matter what you do
25:09 you always have to wear different hats yes you know and people need to be willing to that and not come back to you
25:14 and say “Well this is not in my job description you know and so I think I look for those those same values.” And
25:22 it’s interesting you know I’m going to go back a little bit you said that not only did you learn from those great
25:28 mentors and great bosses but you also learned what you didn’t want
25:33 or you know you you saw behaviors that you say that’s not me and I’m not going
25:39 to bring forward and I think that’s an important thing to to bring up and to
25:44 share because I think we learn from more with our scraped knees of falling down
25:50 than we do winning gold medals and taking those lessons learned so with
25:56 those lessons learned looking back in your in your youth what advice would you
26:03 give your 20-year-old self or you have a young daughter what advice would you give her
26:11 so there’s so much you know some some some great
26:16 things and I thought about it a little bit i think I think uh even though I had great mentors I I
26:24 think one of the advices I would give myself or anybody else
26:30 uh that wants leadership right wants to grow into a leadership position um
26:37 because because I’ve come across people that they want to be just individual
26:42 contributors and that’s great you need so you need some of those people and I’ve have put people in management
26:48 positions where they came back to me and said you know Helman I really don’t want to manage people i just want to go back
26:55 to the lab right which is totally fine yeah right so I think one of the things that was
27:03 challenging for me is the transition from a more level management
27:10 position to a more middle and senior-level management position that was actually harder than I thought and I I I
27:18 was very naive about thinking yeah I mean this is great you know I’m I’m I’m great i’m going to do I know exactly
27:23 what to do but it’s actually difficult to do that transition and and
27:30 understand you know what you need to delegate how to how do you need to lead
27:37 other leaders right and how you can delegate without a dedicate abdicating
27:45 away things right so so and stepping away from being the t the technical
27:52 expert and and and realizing okay I have other people now that can do the
27:58 technical day-to-day stuff uh and what is my role to really move
28:04 the organization forward how am I contributing I don’t want to micromanage these people but I just don’t want also
28:11 to just abandon them right so I think that that’s something that I would I
28:16 would I would tell people to do you know do a little bit of planning find a
28:21 mentor that has gone through the position and can help you to understand you know
28:26 how do you go through that path successfully because I had to kind of learn somewhat by error try and error
28:33 right either micromanaging people or just leaving them alone but then alone but not actually following up enough not
28:39 creating a rhythm of accountability that people can get back to you and say “Look you don’t need to tell people how to do
28:46 things but you need to make sure that things are getting done.” Right right and it is a different mindset of being
28:52 kind of that tactician what do I need to do today versus kind of that strategist
28:57 of where are we going to go how are we going to get there and that is a very hard transition and so what are the what
29:06 if you were again going back to this advice what were the steps that helped
29:11 you with that switch i think it was was a little bit of
29:20 learning really and and and thinking and and and understanding you know how can I contribute
29:26 um I I I think when you work with in my case
29:32 right when you work with scientists and I’ve had teams I had teams of bioinformaticians I have scientists so
29:39 I’ve had I had people that are very smart and very educated reporting to me they’re usually more more intelligent
29:45 than I am right you know how do you handle these people right it’s not the
29:50 type of people that you can tell them what to do every day on and you know I don’t I
29:56 don’t tell a bioinformatician how they they’re going to build the pip the analytical pipelines you know but how do I actually
30:02 help them to get things done how do I remove blocks from them um I don’t know if I can that’s a great question Suzanne
30:10 I I I think for me it was like try more trial and error in in communicating with
30:17 people seeing what works uh understanding that going from going
30:23 from abandoning people to okay I don’t where do we where do we find a
30:30 cadence that they I provide them an opportunity to come back and say this this is getting done and this is you
30:36 know in a certain level of detail how things are being done right right what progress is being made um and but at the
30:44 same time give them the space to resolve problems one of one of the issues we
30:50 have today in general is I think companies don’t really know how to
30:58 measure productivity of knowledge workers i think I think there is there is an
31:06 there is um a push for people to show that they are incredibly busy they’re answering
31:12 emails all the time you know they have to me they they have to show that
31:17 they’re incredibly busy all the time and that’s not how knowledge work really happens you know people that are
31:24 creative they’re solving problems that are creating you know if if you’re a bioinformatician you’re trying to understand how you going to analyze this
31:30 data from this really unusual project you need time to get through it right
31:36 and you you it so I I think sometimes companies struggle and how to
31:44 measure really really advanced technical knowledge workers you know how do you
31:50 really measure their productivity and how do we still give them the
31:56 opportunity to have time to think through problems and to be innovative
32:01 i love that because you know that’s something I’ve never really thought of because again in a manufacturing or
32:06 whatever it’s easy to count widgets mmhm but when you’re looking at problem
32:12 solving especially in an arena where nobody’s ever solved that problem before
32:17 or you’re creating a new process I think that space that pause because again people
32:26 look at oh Tanis is just sitting there looking up at the ceiling you know like
32:32 is she really happening yes maybe you’re having an aha moment
32:37 but recognizing that that that is important space for your employees as
32:43 well i like that thank you well it sounds I think um I’m sure that we all
32:49 learn more from um messing up than we do from getting it perfect every every
32:55 single time but I would imagine um the people who work for you really
33:00 appreciate this approach and um I’m sure that the companies do as
33:05 well our final question that we ask our guests uh each each week is you know
33:11 what does hiring for good mean to you and I’m curious to know uh what your
33:16 interpretation of the term is yeah so I I put some thought into it and I think I think there’s two different ways that I
33:23 can interpret that uh the first one
33:29 is you are hiring to do good right so if you’re a company that’s growing and you
33:35 can hire people that’s wonderful because you’re giving people opportunity you’re giving your company opportunity you’re
33:40 giving the community opportunity you know you um you have your values you
33:46 have your goals and usually companies have goals to support a community or to
33:51 create value for for for customers uh in some way right i’m I’m really proud of
33:57 the opportunity that I had through many years to support so many scientists you know and and so many great research
34:05 projects that people done that were enabled by the technology that I that my lab has provided you know and the people
34:12 that work in my lab so I think that’s that’s you know it’s great when you can hire to do good and then the other
34:18 aspect of hire for good is like let’s do the hiring right you know let’s develop
34:26 a process that you hiring from from the from finding and hiring these people
34:34 providing them a journey right and and finding the right we always talk about
34:39 oh you need to hire the right people but what does that really mean right um and
34:45 so so I think hire for good is wouldn’t it be great if we can always find the best candidate to solve the problem that
34:52 we need and the problem and and I think what happens is a lot of companies don’t put a lot of effort into their their
34:59 higher pro hiring process and also they’re jeopardizing their hire for good
35:05 process from the beginning you know so those I guess what comes to my mind
35:10 those two things well I I I like them both I agree well thank you so much it
35:17 was really just lovely to have you as our guest and I I know our audience is going to love the wisdom and thoughts to
35:23 communicate it to them oh thank you for that absolutely thank you so much for your time and um yeah this is going to
35:30 be exciting to see your next adventure and where what’s next for you thank you
35:36 so thank you appreciate it thanks for joining us today at Hiring for Good if you were inspired by our conversation
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35:55 acumen executive search thanks so much and don’t forget to join us next time for another in-depth conversation about
36:02 transformational leadership until then have fun