Hiring for Good Ep. 25 – Doug and Jonathan Lenhoff

Hiring for Good

Thank you for tuning in to this episode with our guests Doug and Jonathan Lenhoff, The President and Director of Sales at dibrokerWest (also father and son).

Hiring For Good Website: https://www.hiringforgood.net/

About dibrokerWest: dibrokerWest, LLC, established in 2001, is the result of a merger between Jerry Koll and Doug Lenhoff, both of Portland, Oregon. Their insurance brokerage operations focus almost exclusively on Individual Disability Income Insurance. Today, dibrokerWest is one of the largest independent multi-company Disability Brokerage firms in the country. dibrokerWest currently provides DI and CI products and services to several National Sales Organizations as well as over 6,000 independent insurance professionals in all 50 states.

Doug Lenhoff’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/doug-lenhoff-70588313/

Jonathan Lenhoff’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-d-lenhoff-b2540bb6/

Podcast on Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast…

Tanis Morris: Director of Business Development at Acumen Executive Search Email: tanis@acumenexecutivesearch.com

Suzanne Hanifin: President at Acumen Executive Search Email: suzanne@acumenexecutivesearch.com

Acumen Executive Search Website: https://www.acumenexecutivesearch.com/

Hiring for Good Transcript

0:00 well hello this is Suzanne Hanifin with Acumen Executive Search and I am with my

0:05 lovely co-host Tanis Morris good morning and we are really excited today

0:11 this is our first time on hiring for good to have two guests because we’re

0:17 dealing with succession and transition and as you all know hiring for good is

0:22 a podcast on leadership best practices and lessons learned so I would love to

0:29 spend a two minutes and do a little introduction we have Doug Lenhoff and son Jonathan Lenhoff and back in

0:38 2001 Doug started dibroker West um as

0:45 you know within the insurance industry but very niched and very nuanced and we

0:51 get to hear Doug’s story today but again in a succession and transition but today

0:59 they have over 6,000 independent um agents working with you

1:04 and and represent all 50 states so welcome Jonathan and Doug and I’m gonna

1:11 kick it off yeah with you Doug and tell us your journey how did you start a

1:16 niche Insurance practice sure journey I’ve not really thought of it that way but uh as opposed to just a series of

1:26 coincidences um is that yeah grew up exactly grew up in Southern California

1:34 um played football there and I mentioned that because uh playing sports has had a

1:40 significant impact on my leadership and it’s where I learned a lot about

1:46 leadership um went from there to West Point Army and played played football

1:52 there as well um left West Point went into the army did became a company

1:59 Commander over in Germany uh we were the farthest farthest most deployed unit uh

2:07 infantry unit in the United States Army we were right up on the Czechoslovakian border wow which used to be a country

2:14 actually um uh and spent five years doing that that that also was a great

2:20 leadership learning experience uh decided not to make that a career uh and

2:25 got out and went through and I’m sure you might be familiar with some organizations that work exclusively with

2:32 uh junior military officers for recruiting for executives so I went through a program like that and um came

2:39 across a a company that sold insurance it was never a dream that was

2:46 not what I had planned my career to be but it was interesting and you could

2:52 make good money and I have to say after being in the army that ended up being a priority that I wanted to make some

2:59 money and I got in interested in the career because one of the things that had offered was time freedom and money

3:06 freedom and those were two things I was working willing to work for um so I got

3:11 into the disability insurance business didn’t really know what it was at the time didn’t know why it was important at

3:18 the time but I came to develop a passion for it after you pay your first claim you

3:26 really get a good sense that what you’re doing is a good thing uh it is Insurance

3:32 it is straight Insurance meaning there are no Investments or savings plans

3:39 associated with it it’s it’s disability insurance is based strictly on the Actuarial tables uh that they have and

3:47 um it’s pretty impressive the statistics are pretty impressive in terms of how it

3:52 impacts people how many people are disabled um that that type of thing so I

3:58 I signed on with a national company leader in the uh in the business at the

4:04 time in the late ’90s went through a very large

4:09 consolidation uh the carriers claimed they weren’t making much money and when I started in the business in 85 or 86 um

4:20 there were well over 300 companies that sold disability insurance

4:25 today they’re 15 to 20 wow mhm that’s

4:30 huge and going through a consolidation again right now wow so it’s it’s um

4:38 interesting place to be it was an interesting place at the late uh in the late 90s um I did not like the corporate

4:48 thing that was going on people were losing their jobs people were losing their retirements uh people would put 20 years

4:55 into a company were being asked to reapply for their job I don’t know if you remember those times but it was

5:01 pretty ugly and I decided uh that being part of a corporation was probably the

5:07 least secure place I could be and I said let me try and do this by

5:13 by myself so went out um and actually signed on with another company

5:21 Carrier um our contracts were typically three years just about the second year they

5:28 fired me wow yeah here’s a West Point graduate an

5:35 army guy yeah uh the production wasn’t there and I can’t argue with them it

5:40 wasn’t um but I thought I was doing a good job I thought I was getting ahead

5:45 of myself there and um but they didn’t seem to think so at about the same

5:52 time and always works out this way does it at about the same time I did hit the

5:57 big case I I developed put together and created a case that the industry had

6:05 never seen before and by a case I mean writing a bunch of insurance on a whole group of people and we did it in a way

6:13 that hadn’t been done before um we got a lot of push back from people uh because

6:19 of what we were doing we were ignoring some of the Actuarial tables we were ignoring some of the underwriting stuff

6:25 it was very hard to get people interested in this but we we made a good argument that um this was a group of

6:32 people that if we were a successful it would lead to much more success and that’s what happened um and so I was

6:39 able to take the money that I earned on that and start di broker D broker West

6:47 um and that led to us eventually hiring

6:54 uh seven or eight reps independently around the country that also was unique

6:59 we were the first independent brokerage to have independent reps and I have to tell you my friends in the business

7:07 weren’t really happy about it that I now had somebody in their backyard but I was an independent company I wasn’t working

7:14 for anybody but myself and so Portland’s a nice market but Seattle’s a nice

7:20 market too so is Denver and Los Angeles and I mean these are much bigger

7:25 markets and if I was able to put somebody in there support them from Portland and have them do the sales jobs

7:33 down there that to me seemed like a pretty pretty smart model pretty interesting thing to do and forgive me

7:39 for um not just knowing but I think for our audience too could you clarify was

7:44 the company that you founded based on that same type of insurance that that

7:49 You’ve done in your case so di broker stands for disability insurance broker okay so very creative but no it’s okay

7:58 so it’s a specialty so you had your first independent company that was just disability insurance there at the time

8:05 were life insurance brokerages where independent agents would go and get quotes from various companies not such a

8:14 thing existed for disability insurance wow okay I wasn’t the only one to establish uh that there were I’m going

8:22 to say 30 maybe offices they were all people and this is uh true um Suzanne

8:28 you have to help me what was the the name that they used to give um companies

8:35 where they would develop executives but then those executives would all get stolen and taken to other companies so

8:41 they were yeah yeah uh and all of these independent brokerages all came out of

8:48 this corporate environment these were all we were all Reps for different car

8:54 big carriers and when they kind of consolidated and destroyed those

8:59 distribution systems we were kind of left with what are we going to do well I know how to sell disability insurance

9:06 and I know and and the issue with disability insurance is it is not something that most insurance agents

9:12 focus on right or have a specialty in and so they need our information in

9:17 order to do the right job absolutely um 23 years later um we’ve been a top 10

9:26 office every year um but right now is a very difficult time

9:32 right now is a very similar time to the late 90s for for my industry lots of consolidation people thinking they can

9:38 buy this insurance off the internet which they can but are they doing it right yeah

9:45 um no I don’t mean any any I’m not throwing any shade

9:51 here but you know if you go online and you want to make travel

9:56 reservations say to Disneyland and you end up picking the wrong hotel

10:02 well that’s that’s a problem that’s not good you don’t but it’s a much different thing than when you picked the wrong

10:08 option on an insurance policy yeah yeah you’ll survive having a bad room you may

10:14 not survive uh not having the right options on your policy and and I’m trying to

10:20 make that point to the carriers because right now the carriers are looking to

10:25 the internet as their solution to bad sales poor sales um what’s important to

10:33 remember about insurance is it’s not what happens today it’s what happens 5 years from now cuz that’s when your

10:40 claims are going to start coming in on this and and we’re at that point now where about 5 years ago they initially

10:45 started taking these applications off the internet there used to be a requirement that you were face to face

10:51 with the individual when you took an application there was a reason for that right um I understand why we don’t do

10:58 that now uh but again I I I fear for the people who think that

11:03 they’re somehow getting over yeah by by eliminating an an agent and by the way

11:10 we’re wholesalers we’re not retailers so other insurance agents are our clients

11:16 exactly you’re not we’re trying to give them the information to give give to

11:21 their clients and again it takes a license and you have to have some education about it it shouldn’t be

11:28 something somebody just decides to go on the internet and buy that day it’s it can be problematic so I have a question

11:35 for you Jonathan your dad Doug spoke about not really having this passion and

11:41 kind of falling into it and then finding out he’s really doing some good and

11:47 there’s a business you why why did you get into this you know he talked about

11:54 his first claim that he ever saw and it really does start with the first claim I mean I I’ll never forget the voice of

12:01 the spouse that I was speaking to of the claimant who said oh this benefits for

12:08 $8,000 that’s it and I said that’s $8,000 a month and she said oh my God

12:15 and it’s mo..it’s small moments like that that you hold with you in the conversations but then remind you when

12:21 you’re talking to somebody in day one but then not 5 years down the road when it happens right where you say this is

12:26 why we had that conversation um and then the passion grows out of that uh

12:32 disability insurance protecting the one our one ability to to earn everything that to

12:39 earn that income that pays for everything right uh it’s the core of your financial plan and so if we’re not

12:46 starting there I have a fundamental issue with what is what are we doing with the plan

12:52 I know that everybody wants to go ahead and and grow their fund and retire but we have to remember we have to make it to retirement right right um and it’s

13:02 not necessarily the short-term disability that’s going

13:07 to jeopardize your financial ability to retire but it’s being disabled in the

13:13 later years right that you don’t have the time to be able to make up that income

13:18 again when I go meet with other insurance professionals you know being young in the industry it shocks me that

13:24 I have to provide this as an idea how do you not I grew up in it how do you not know

13:31 and so I I have struggle getting over that right like how do you not know about disability insurance you sell

13:37 commercial insurance right oh well the education’s just never been there and so if I’m not out there voicing and

13:44 preaching the disability insurance gospel right um there’s something being missed

13:50 and so I see it as like a this is my hate to say this is my calling yeah

13:56 right um few people people say that they grow up wanting to be an insurance

14:01 producer very I mean you will hear in a room of insurance producers there are plenty people that will claim to fame that

14:07 but uh I can vividly remember standing in my best friend’s backyard when we were children and his mom asked us what

14:14 do you want to be when you grow up and he said I want to be an NBA professional basketball player and I said I want to work side by side with my dad not

14:20 because I really understood what you did but you’ve took me to enough industry events and one of the first industry

14:26 events that we ever went to spoke about how Insurance Producers were superheroes and so I would go to school and say my

14:32 dad’s a superhero my dad’s a superhero my dad’s superhero and they say what does he do and I would say he sells insurance and you can imagine they go oh

14:40 I said well it’s it’s the truth I mean you know because we’ve kind of been

14:46 preparing for this i’ it’s it’s led me to think you know how many policies have

14:51 you been involved with how many how many lives have you changed because they became disabled and that they had the

14:58 income to pay for their mortgage utilities groceries and savings right I mean that we want to talk about Legacy

15:05 that’s a legacy I mean that’s single-handedly changing changing

15:10 people’s livelihood and like disability insurance is something that like until you need

15:16 it you don’t always understand the value but when you see someone go through a a

15:24 tragedy that alters the trajectory of their life and then it’s like

15:29 thank thank goodness we had this like we you know and then conversely the people

15:35 who don’t have it um oftentimes it’s it’s really

15:40 sobering and and and kind of just

15:45 um I’ve I’ve seen both sides uh you know um and it’s it when you have that friend

15:52 who goes through something 100% you better bet you’re investing your disability insurance and and you know

15:58 well and your your your comments yeah just display that one thing about

16:04 disability that people don’t recognize that while the person who’s disabled has

16:09 the issue it’s everybody in their sphere around them that is affected by it um

16:17 it’s the spouse who has to help you out of bed or has to bathe you and when I talk to people about

16:25 disability insurance they act as if well if I’m disabled my spouse works so

16:31 we’re okay let let me understand that you walk outside you get hit by the UPS

16:38 truck and she gets up and goes to work the next morning yeah it doesn’t work like that it it doesn’t happen like that

16:45 and to be prepared for that financially um is is difficult if you

16:52 don’t have coverage if you don’t if you’re not ensuring the thing that makes all other things possible I have to smile when I listen

16:59 to him talk by the way because I I’m so proud that he he he’s so far

17:04 along versus where I was uh at at his age but honestly if you don’t ensure

17:10 that one thing what’s the point what are you trying you can what if you have a financial plan that financial plan is

17:16 based upon you being able to generate an income so I take that away from you

17:22 great plan but what do you do now what do you do exactly and and to your point

17:27 people don’t confront it yeah yeah people don’t say yeah that I have to think about that so I’m gonna kind of go

17:35 back you said something in your introduction and journey that you’ve

17:40 consciously um set up a business practice that works with a lot of

17:46 independent consultants or contractors so they’re 1099 how do you lead and manage through

17:54 that because you don’t have control or sphere of right control over the biggest

18:01 issue that we have to deal with in this industry is bringing people into it yeah

18:10 how do you do that how do you pay a commissioned salesperson who’s not earning

18:16 anything and get them to survive the three years is what we’ve determined

18:22 three years are so that it takes in order for you to build a block of business that’s going to supp support you um

18:30 we had to develop a model for it it’s expensive and you have to in my we’ve

18:36 built this model based upon my experience and my experience is you give somebody two years to do something in

18:42 this marketplace it’s not enough time we have a reputation of going with one

18:47 company and then jumping to another company and then that’s brokerage we that’s kind of so it takes two years just before

18:55 people are going to be comfortable doing business with you now it takes another year for you to get your message of in

19:01 addition to everything else you’re doing here’s another question you need to ask the disabil the the disability question

19:08 the only um our industry is horrible about how we bring people in

19:13 one in 10 survive in our industry that’s ter..that’s not a person problem

19:20 that’s an industry problem it’s not the people we’re bringing in that are the problem it’s how we bring them in is the

19:25 problem and our expectations are you can’t and be a high school football

19:31 coach and sell life insurance well that’s not true that’s not necessarily

19:36 true training is the key um and finding people who are

19:43 sincerely interested in disability insurance is the key you have to believe in this product uh the first question I

19:50 typically ask an insurance producer a retail producer is do you own disability

19:56 insurance because if you don’t own it you’re not going to sell much of it and you’d be surprised I mean most don’t own

20:04 it um for lots of reasons

20:10 um kind of forgot where it was no no a 1099 and how do you leave so what we did

20:15 our model we bring them in salaried oh we bring them in salaried for two

20:21 years um at the end of two years we re we evaluate are you making progress if

20:26 you’re making progress we’ll continue through a third year or so um and then we

20:32 we switch over to 1099 once you’ve build up a block and once you have a some

20:38 recurring block coming in then we can cut you loose and you establish an LLC

20:43 and we do all the things necessary to make sure that you’re an independent contractor at that point one out of 10 I

20:49 said was the industry average we’re nine out of 13 wow wow and the nine that we

20:55 have go back as far as 20 years um we have very little turnover almost none um

21:04 I say almost cuz we have had some but yeah uh out of we have 15 salaried

21:10 people and eight of these 1099 um folks the longest uh employee

21:17 we’ have have is 22 years wow the young…the most recent I think is four years I

21:24 mean that’s very I mean I I can’t imagine how much higher than that is it’s

21:30 extremely absolutely and the sales side of it is is is also having nine sales

21:37 people survive is is crazy in our business and

21:43 um has really I think been part of the reason for our success wow and then Jonathan are you looking into the future

21:51 and seeing that model changing or is it staying well I think what we realize is

21:57 the model has to change how we bring people into the industry has to change no I meant for for you specifically

22:04 taking dibroker West into the future this model is working it’s it’s it’s

22:10 working do you you want to touch on that because I know you have some words of it’s working but it’s terribly expensive

22:17 yes it’s terribly expensive we’re bringing too few people into the industry not fast enough yeah okay so

22:23 that’s the change that you want to implement is bringing more in at a faster rate we have to find a way

22:29 yeah right it’s it’s being malleable it’s being able to change with the industry and that’s what we’re seeing right now is we need to bring more

22:34 people into the industry so that we can have more conversations it’s an awareness issue I

22:40 mean the reason we the industry doesn’t sell as much as they’d like to is people

22:46 are just not aware that the product exists right and unfortunately the

22:52 majority of the quotes that we receive are for people who are asking their

22:57 produ their or they’re already disabled I have to tell well I was going to that’s exactly where

23:02 I was going to go it’s a red flag anytime somebody is calling you saying do you sell

23:09 disability insurance you have to ask is do you have a problem is there is there an issue there um disability insurance

23:16 has to be sold otherwise it again it’s a product

23:22 that can can be abused easily oh absolutely um it covers everything right

23:27 everything from mental and nervous kind of disorders and to back problems which

23:34 is the the largest claim that that we have but does it does it cover things

23:39 like um cancers and MS great what’s really great about

23:45 disability insurance is it it covers you for what you

23:52 do and when you can’t do what you’re doing the way that you’re doing it

23:57 you’re considered disabled oh interesting if you lost your voice

24:02 for example and couldn’t do these podcasts and these podcasts are an important part of you do sure you’d be

24:11 considered totally disabled under many policies wow if a trial lawyer can’t go

24:18 to trial yeah for for various reasons if um

24:23 the largest market for this product is the medical market are doctors

24:29 um with specialties and that type of that they want to protect my argument is

24:34 anybody who gets up and goes to work in the morning who has bills to pay you need to protect what you’re earning yeah

24:41 and I I and I believe that like if you are then rendered disabled you know but you aren’t able to go to work for a

24:48 certain amount of time then there’s a lumpsum payout often right different like that’s something again this is why

24:56 you this is again why going to advisor the internet well that’s what my policy does

25:03 I believe going to an advisor is is is really important because they can talk

25:08 about what is it specific to you that we need to be able to cover so I’m going to

25:14 bring this back to to this transition and succession because again we had a

25:20 guest um recording previously who specializes in coaching and working with

25:27 Gen one to gen two in family businesses and again you saying I’m

25:35 going to work for my dad so there is that passion because he talked about so many times gen two doesn’t have the same

25:41 passion or desire they kind of feel obligated but as a business owner that’s

25:48 hard to let go kind of walk us through that piece of everything

25:57 yeah it is hard to let go but that’s ego that’s all ego

26:07 um there comes a time when you when you just get up and you say I’m

26:12 tired um and I have to do something about that what’s important about our

26:17 story is that we plan for that we planned really really well the first the

26:25 first hurdle to overcome was to ensure that this was Jonathan’s plan not my

26:31 plan that this was his idea not my idea I wanted him to be in the business but I

26:37 had to make sure that he wasn’t in the business for me he was in the business for him do you have other children I do

26:46 and are they in the business as well no okay I have a daughter who’s a public defender okay she she’s very happy doing

26:53 that yeah so getting over that first hurdle was the first thing to convince me that could pass it on to him that

26:59 this was something that he wanted to do technically John’s had every position by

27:04 design every position in the in the company he’s been the receptionist he’s been the quote person he’s been

27:11 everybody the case manager so again that was by design um because there was a

27:17 time when I could do everything uh I could quote I could I could run all the but I I I couldn’t do

27:25 that anymore so he does know how to do everything was really important but the more important thing was is this

27:31 something you want to do and and when we got over that so we we had a plan and I

27:37 have um a gentleman um who is our senior rep who I brought on he was the first

27:44 guy I brought on he’s about 10 years 12 years younger than me so um and our plan

27:50 was he will fill the gap while John was developing and then John would take over

27:55 from him that was the plan but as Mike T says everybody has a plan to you get hit

28:00 in the mouth yeah and he got sick and we didn’t anticipate it I mean

28:07 um seriously ill um and outw went that

28:13 plan yeah sometimes you just got to be thrown into the middle of it and that’s what

28:20 happened with John I mean we had a plan we were following the plan and it fell apart so we had to go plan B and John

28:28 was plan was plan B and he has stepped up and done some of those things that

28:34 you were asking about how do I get those eight other guys to follow along with what we do um it is important to

28:41 remember we taught them the business yeah I I want to I wanted oh I’m sorry John go ahead please well I just wanted

28:46 to add to what you’re saying is also what’s so important is that you’ve set up this executive team in such a way

28:52 that my confidence in stepping into the role anything that I lack I know that

28:58 pick up and I’m not scared one way shape or form that Cindy or Scott Gray or

29:03 Scott Fowler can’t handle something or advise in some way right and so my even

29:09 though I’ve done just about everything within within the organization um it’s their expertise

29:17 that I really get a sense of comfort and confidence and confidence moving into a

29:23 position like this absolutely so I I think it’s really interesting um I’ve been reflecting while you’re talking

29:29 about your business uh just we had a a a guest Suzanne alluded to earlier who had

29:36 kind of discussed like one of the most fundamental aspects that leads to success for any organization is really

29:44 being clear on the values and it sounds like you not only you know gave your

29:53 your son the experience to work at all these levels but I would imagine you it

29:58 sounds like you’re holding some shared values so do you mind speaking to what those values are let let me jump in

30:04 first and share that um our office is of the utmost importance the people who

30:10 work with us um they come before everything else correct me if I’m wrong

30:16 but I think that not only we understand that but our reps understand that and they see the change that um their sales

30:23 have in our community right and so um we’re going to do everything that we

30:29 possibly can in order to keep our family for lack of better word uh as

30:39 as happy and healthy as possible um you know we’ve not only have we’ve been hit

30:44 hit in the face um in secession planning but we’ve had other individuals in our office who have

30:51 had family illnesses that have been able to take nine months and and go care for

30:56 their uh for their family but still work full-time right and then we and we’re

31:03 able to welcome them back I mean that’s not something that large corporations can do right and because we’re small

31:10 we’re able to be malleable well I think large corporations could do it I I just don’t know that they have the same

31:17 um level of commitment frankly to to their employees I I I know you want to

31:22 ask it at the end of the the uh the session but I mean that’s that’s what um

31:29 hire for good is all about absolutely I mean we’re in when we say will you work

31:36 for us or with us we’re in 100% 100% um

31:42 so you have some problems you have some issues that come down the line we don’t turn our backs to you at that at that

31:49 point which is one reason why we’ve had such little turnover I think people get

31:55 that we we in not just for their work but for them uh well you

32:01 invested two years of in salary for two plus years we don’t have any

32:07 managers everybody’s a doer in a small company we may hire you as a support

32:15 person for something but I can guarantee you there are four or five other things that we’re going to ask you to do that

32:20 probably weren’t necessarily what you thought your job was going to be everybody has to do a little bit more

32:27 than and than what the job description would would say and I don’t know if that gets me in trouble or not but we we we we

32:35 need doers we don’t need people who have to be managed now having said that we do

32:41 manage everybody uh We’ve set up a um an executive team and we did that once this

32:50 other gentleman got sick we figured wow we should really have the decision dispersed a little bit amongst the the

32:57 people who are really doing the work and that’s what John was referring to and so

33:02 we feel we can handle almost anything now when we have that group that five the people group of five that the

33:10 communication is excellent you talk about values communication you can’t have enough of

33:16 it um I think our most important value though the one thing we brought we

33:24 really we won’t bend on is is our integrity H yeah um it’s not a light

33:30 switch you turn on and off and in our industry unfortunately it is for some people and and uh but we’ve that’s the

33:38 most important thing we do what we say we’re going to do when we say we’re going to do it and and everything else

33:45 will take care of itself well and I love that um even on your website you talk

33:51 about when you call a human’s picking up the phone right I can’t even tell you

33:56 last time I talked to my insurance company and you know you’re like oh good

34:01 God how many zeros am I pushing right yeah right it’s really interesting and

34:08 like very um admirable that you have such longevity on your team when you’re

34:15 building your team what qualities are you looking for where you you know that you know or I

34:21 guess if you were advising other companies on like successfully building teams what advice would you give

34:27 you know I I I I think it’s a cliche but problem solvers are what we

34:34 need if you don’t know exactly how look you you’re not going to come in and know how to operate our um our

34:43 database it’s customized and you there’s just no way that you can come in trained

34:48 to know how to do that but if you’re a problem solver we can give you a head

34:54 start get you pointed in the right direction and you should be able to figure out where to go from there so solving

35:00 problems maybe and just as much as we’re dedicated to the individuals that we hire we also look for dedication to us

35:06 as well because it does take some problem solving to learn our databases and and um I’ve once heard it takes

35:13 about three years to really become proficient in in our industry right and not until your third year are you

35:19 starting to answer the questions that you were once asking yeah right and so it’s that time time on feet Runners like

35:27 to say right exactly that it gets you to a point where you’re extremely proficient at what you do and

35:32 comfortable and and I’m going to um talk about you know I asked Doug kind of the

35:40 lessons on how did he let go how do you deal with it Jonathan or let me ask you

35:47 a different way um somebody described succession the two typical is handing

35:52 off this baton either a parent throws it at their kid and hopes it doesn’t bounce

35:58 off or they don’t let go did you ever feel like that as you’re taking

36:05 over absolutely which one was it was it the throw throw the Baton oh talk to us

36:13 about that experience both because there’s

36:20 a there are there are times that we sit in an executive meeting and I feel like I yeah we’re going to go this direction

36:26 we’re going to go this direction we’re going to go this direction and you walk in and you say we’re going to go this direction and I say okay because I think

36:32 the most important thing to remember as the second generation coming into the

36:37 business is that it’s it’s his it’s his business and I get to watch as long as I

36:45 can until I have the opportunity to lead right but at some point it’s going to be

36:50 your business and I’m sure I mean that’s your desire too so 100% what is you know

36:58 that’s tricky that’s that’s a tricky line to I mean it sounds like your dad it gives you like but I think it’s

37:04 natural it’s been pretty natural I think there was a point when I was like hey there were a couple times when I’m like I’d really like to do this and you’re

37:10 like no we’re going to do this and I’m like absolutely we’re doing that but then it comes there are times when we sit down

37:18 and and it’s because our Rel it’s our relationship spans further than work 9 to5 we go home like we go home and I’ll

37:25 give you a call and I’ll say Hey you know I was really thinking about this case and this and another situation and

37:31 and you’ll go back and go all right John called me at uh 7:00 p.m. on a Saturday

37:36 and wanted to talk to me about this this this this and I think he’s right we’re going to go ahead and we’re going to do

37:42 that um it’s been a working relationship that’s that’s caused both the

37:49 well Covid’s throwing a monkey wrench into all this I mean really the whole industry is

37:56 changing so significantly and we as I mentioned just prior to co

38:02 had this plan in play had decided on this plan and uh my business partner and

38:10 my wife um and I decided Well this would be a good time to move to Hawaii

38:15 Mmhm I mean it couldn’t have been worse timing

38:21 um and and so all of a sudden John finds himself

38:28 there in Portland in an empty office right yeah um and the leadership is gone

38:37 and he’s been handed the baton and how do you go from there when okay but

38:43 where’s where’s the rest of the group where’s and the whole world is different everything chang wow yeah you know you

38:50 asked me the other day you know who are your mentors you know

38:56 and it’s interesting that I don’t just say you immediately because I see you as my dad yeah and so it’s it’s everything

39:05 that you’ve taught me throughout my entire life that now I’m kind of being able to give back right give to the

39:13 world give to give to the company and um I think it’s

39:19 remarkable that you look at it as hey I pass you the Baton then and I’m like oh no not at

39:26 all that’s not that’s not when this happened right because so supported well I am so supported by by our office

39:33 manager Cindy by Scott Gray I mean by the executive team that we never missed a beat right right

39:42 did you guys have to put boundaries on your relationship like saying it’s Thanksgiving we’re not talking work that

39:48 doesn’t happen no I have to tell you I mean I’m going to I hope I don’t get in trouble with anybody who loves me here

39:56 but um my my dad and brother uh my my brother came in to work

40:02 with my dad in our family business and it just didn’t work out so I’m I’m like kind of just like sitting here like

40:09 wow it’s very impressive let me add to that mix a little bit and I’m sorry I’ve

40:15 taken so long to mention this none of this is possible without Patty Calhoun

40:20 my wife who is clearly half of this business half of this too so um um um

40:29 she is incredible and does an has done an incredible job and we’ve worked

40:34 together that was not planned either that was very we do sit on opposite ends of the

40:40 office I mean we put as much distance between us as we can it is it isn’t always easy and um but this has

40:48 been more natural co did accelerate everything right I mean it made

40:54 everything that you were going to do happen a little bit uh sooner than maybe what we had thought but I I haven’t we

41:01 haven’t had that kind of friction but you know why there’s no boundaries yeah

41:06 there’s no boundaries because you live in Hawaii and I called you at 4:00 a.m. his time and ask him

41:13 questions about insurance ‘cause I think that would be the toughest thing you know um I’ll say it even at work we’re

41:20 girlfriends and we’re friends and we do things and sometimes you want to say

41:25 stop talking about work let’s talk about other things but I I get so excited when

41:32 I hear him talk about what he’s doing who he called on that day I know all the

41:38 producers in the Portland area I mean I love it when he gives me stories and tells me and where he has success where

41:45 I didn’t and that’s true of our business I mean people who like doing business with me may not like doing business with

41:51 him and vice versa and that’s just the business well our next question is going to be really interesting because it’s

41:58 about advice and wisdom and so um you know I’m curious first of all our

42:06 standard question is to ask you what advice you would give your younger self to add to that for this kind of um

42:14 unique format I would ask what advice would

42:21 um have you not given to your son that you feel that you need to or or

42:28 or is there you know is there anything you would tell yourself that you haven’t told your son I guess or you know are

42:34 those different and if you have a better way to add to that feel free to jump

42:39 yeah it’s a good question um it’s a good question

42:46 because I often ask myself should I tell him this not that I’m hiding anything

42:54 but um you don’t want to discourage anybody and our business is in a really

43:01 difficult place right now our industry is in a really difficult place right now

43:06 and is it an industry I would want to get into

43:12 um going forward because it’s 180 degrees different than it was I was

43:18 telling John when I was his age doing what he was doing I would walk in in the morning there would be a stack of 10

43:24 proposals and I would pick five of them and go on a milk run right and I’d go and deliver these proposals to the

43:30 different agents and discuss what a great sales opportunity for me to get in front of people I had that doesn’t exist

43:37 anymore if we don’t have a proposal back to somebody in less than 24 hours I mean we’re not competitive we’re not we’re

43:43 not so there all that opp..all that opportunity also to meet with these producers is is also

43:50 gone today none of that exists I think my advice that I haven’t given

43:57 would be um believe in

44:03 yourself you’re going to be told know a million different ways from from a million different people believe in

44:10 yourself if you believe in this product and you believe that people should own it you’ll find a way to to get it to

44:17 them um but you have to believe in yourself believe in the product and then go with the flow be be

44:25 quick to change adopt change be one of the first to adopt change

44:31 um uh and don’t burn any Bridges along the way there you go so John I’m GNA ask

44:37 you the same question but spinning it different as a gen two what advice would you give to future

44:45 gen twos you have to enter the every

44:51 conversation humble you have to let them lead I think is my only advice

44:58 because you’re coming into this as uh as somebody who may know a lot may

45:06 have a lot of experience may have watched them run the company intimately for seven or 10 years right or grown up

45:13 in it and watched you know them make the mistakes but you have to let them find

45:19 their way out because it’s theirs that’s wonderful because again I

45:27 what a good piece of advice because most people go well now it’s mine I’m going

45:33 to do everything opposite or change it or I didn’t like this I it’s very it’s very easy to get upset when things don’t

45:39 go your way right but you have to remember that there is only one person can lead at a time

45:48 right and so we can’t we can’t have the left side of our body doing one thing

45:54 and the right side doing another we both have to be doing the same thing mhm that

45:59 would be my that’s wonderful yeah and then we always end yeah well you’ve already spoke a little bit about what

46:05 hiring for good means but if you don’t mind I would love to hear from each one of you what hiring for good means to

46:14 you hiring for good for me is the it’s a mentality so it’s an all-in mentality

46:21 meaning that when you hire somebody you’re not only hiring them for them but

46:26 you’re hiring them for themselves or sorry you’re hiring them for their family and you’re also hiring them for

46:31 their Community right that’s what hiring for good means to me similarly hiring

46:38 for good um when you say you’re doing something for good that’s a way of saying I’m doing it

46:44 permanently so hiring for good to me means being all in when I hire that

46:50 person um when I when I first thought of that question I said well I’m not hiring for bad that’s I’m not I’m not looking

46:58 to hire someone not to do good um but it’s good for the company it’s good for

47:06 that family it has to be good for them and it’s good for your customers um

47:12 that’s what hiring for good good is that’s perfect I cannot thank both of

47:17 you enough again Jonathan and Doug Lenhoff dibroker West thank you this

47:24 has been very insightful thank you great great to have you thank you thank

47:29 you thanks for joining us today at hiring for good if you inspired by our conversation don’t forget to like follow

47:36 And subscribe wherever you get your podcast and if you want to learn more about our Executive Search Services

47:42 check us out at www.hiringforgood.net or our company website Acumen

47:48 Executive Search thanks so much and don’t forget to join us next time for another in-depth conversation about

47:54 transformational leadership till then have fun