Hiring for Good Ep. 12 – Namrata Saroj

Hiring for Good

About Namrata Saroj, OD: Namrata Saroj, OD is an independent biotech consultant with over 20 years of experience focusing on global development and commercialization of drugs and technologies advancing Ophthalmic care. Her extensive understanding of the Ophthalmology clinical and commercial landscapes is founded on her diverse experiences working across multiple programs. She has been a significant contributor towards the commercialization of both Lucentis and Eylea, two of the most successful biologic products in this sector. Dr. Saroj’s leadership has been recognized through her vast network of prominent clinical and industry leaders. She has co-authored several peer-reviewed publications in management of Ophthalmic diseases.

Currently, Dr. Saroj is a Principal of All Eyes Consulting, LLC collaborating with companies across various stages from early start-ups to late-stage development and commercialization. In this capacity, she has effectively helped these companies with strategic partnerships, clinical development, trial enrollment, launch preparation and commercialization support. She is the co-founder and Chief Scientific Lead of Clinical Trials Resource Group, a CRO focused on executing Ophthalmology clinical trials.

Namrata’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/namrata-saroj-od-36259b1/

Acumen Executive Search proudly presents ‘Hiring For Good‘, our insightful podcast delving into the profound impact of leadership on companies, communities, and societies. Hosted by Tanis Morris and Suzanne Hanifin. Elevate your understanding of leadership’s transformative potential.

Tanis Morris: Director of Business Development at Acumen Executive Search Email: tanis@acumenexecutivesearch.com

Suzanne Hanifin: President at Acumen Executive Search Email: suzanne@acumenexecutivesearch.com

Acumen Executive Search Website: https://www.acumenexecutivesearch.com/

Acumen Executive Search is the leading certified woman-owned Executive Search and advisory Firm on the West Coast.

Acumen Executive Search, Portland, Oregon, is proud to present the Hiring For Good Podcast. We have always been informed and inspired by the leaders, recruiting clients, and executive placement candidates we have the honor of working with…. and now we get a chance to share this wisdom.

Hiring for Good Transcript

0:00 well hello this is Tanis with Hiring for Good and I’m with Suzanne as usual

0:05 hi there good morning yes and today we’re so pleased to be joined by Dr Namrata Saroj um she is an independent

0:13 biotech consultant with 20 years of experience focusing on global development and commercialization of new

0:21 drugs and technologies advancing op Ophthalmic care

0:26 You guys na Namrata has been my friend for for many years and I’m so pleased to have her here but you’ll have to jump in Namrata if

0:32 I misspeak or say any of these course terms incorrectly but I’m going to

0:38 continue with um your very impressive background just because I think before we delve into discussing leadership and

0:44 all the things we’re going to talk about it really helps our audience understand you know where you are today and then

0:51 kind of where you come from so um her leadership has been recognized throughout the industry and she’s co-authored several peer-reviewed

0:57 Publications in management of Ophthalmic diseases currently Dr Saroj is principal

1:03 of All Eyes Consulting LLC where she collaborates with companies across various stages of

1:09 development she is co-founder and chief scientific lead of clinical trials research group a CRO focused on

1:16 executing Ophthalmology clinical trials prior to this she led the Ophthalmology

1:21 medical affairs team as an executive director at Regeneron Pharmaceuticals Dr Saroj has previously held positions at

1:28 Genentech and Manan Eye Ear and Throat hospital she earned her doctor of Optometry from uh the University of

1:35 California at Berkeley she has a Bachelor of Science in Optometry from University of California and a Bachelor

1:42 of Arts in Biochemistry from Whittier College which is how we know each other Namrata thank you so much for being here

1:49 today we’re just thrilled to have you thank you for having me here yeah no it’s really a pleasure I kind of gave a

1:55 brief overview but in this in in in this podcast we talk a lot about what shaped

2:03 you as a leader and we always want to start on just kind of your synopsis of your journey so um since I’ve known you

2:10 for many years I know you had a really different vision of what your um your

2:16 career was going to look like so why don’t we start from that point and kind of walk us through how you got to where

2:22 you are today sure um so I’m told I don’t remember this because I was only 3

2:28 years old that I used to go around the housing I’m going to be an eye doctor uh by my parents and but they never told me

2:35 that till I actually enrolled in optometry school and said I’m actually going to go be an eye doctor um Vision

2:41 Care is something that’s been very very passionate for me since since early days

2:47 and um once I got into optometry school and once I started practicing um right

2:52 after school I realize that um I’m one of those people who gets bored very

2:58 quickly I need to be very very active Tanis you know that really well um so I started thinking about what is it that

3:03 I’m going to be doing in 10 years and I think that’s the first lesson I learned about starting a career is there’s not

3:10 one path you have to be carving your own path as you move forward um and it’s okay to have different paths you know we

3:17 there were used to be sort of this um thinking that oh once you decide on a career that’s what you stick for the

3:23 rest of your life I think things have changed there are so many more options now so why stick to one thing use your

3:28 skill set to to kind of keep expanding and creating maybe a more active sort of career for yourself um so yeah I went

3:36 hunting and I said what am I going to do with this I know I want to be in eye care and you know try telling Indian parents

3:41 that you’ve gone through eight years of school and you don’t want to practice anymore it’s not the funnest conversation um but um I stumbled upon

3:50 the hospital Manhattan Eye Ear and Throat Hospital where they were looking for clinical research um personnel I had no

3:56 idea what that was I absolutely but this uh this individual this lady that I met who

4:03 um is still very very prominent in my life uh talked to me for 10 minutes and she said let’s do this together I’m like

4:10 all right we’re doing it I have no idea what I’m signing up for but we’re going to do it um and that’s how my clinical research um sort of career started and

4:18 after a few years it was time that’s a sort of a very natural move to move into industry if you choose to advance um

4:25 once again took a position that had no clue what it was all about but you learn you learn on a job you move on um you

4:31 ask for help when it’s needed another very important um aspect of leadership that people tend to overlook um and

4:38 that’s how my industry career started great and so then once you left

4:45 Manhattan Eye Clinic or the eye hospital um how did you move moving into industry

4:52 you were a researcher at that point did you come in as a researcher because I believe you ended up somewhere quite different yes so it’s it’s an evolution

5:00 of researcher um holding your own network and creating that network is so important um I was

5:07 very lucky to work with a very prominent group of um Retinal Specialists those are

5:13 the that’s my field and who really encouraged and supported me and and this goes back to commenting on you know sort

5:20 of women in in a very male-dominated field um and I truly believe that it’s a

5:27 skill set that makes you for moves you forward you do have to work a little tiny bit extra hard but for the most part it’s your skill set that that moves

5:34 you forward and these guys were very very supportive um so when the company came looking for the Personnel of what I

5:41 was a medical science leers on when I first started um they are the ones who actually told the company that they

5:47 should I they should hire me um knowing that I was not going to work for them so that’s the kind level of support that

5:52 they gave me um so yes I went to work in in on a product um honestly I had no

5:59 idea what what an MSL was. Uh I sat in every training I could possibly sit on

6:04 for launch we were launching this new product because I’m like I don’t even know this verbiage like I have no clue

6:11 um and that’s how I learned and so from that onwards this is MSL sit and what’s called the Medical Affairs Group um

6:17 eventually ended up heading the Medical Affairs Group for my next company Regeneron. Mmhm that’s amazing and and

6:24 again it’s always so interesting to me that nobody’s career is the straight path

6:30 like you said you could have just stayed as an eye doctor and had 30 40 years

6:36 there but you chose differently, and I think it’s all you know we have these

6:42 formative learning experiences whether it’s a mentor something you you exceeded in or even

6:49 failed in what were some of those formative leadership experiences you had

6:55 so I think one of the one of the most prominent leadership skills is the

7:00 ability to learn right you’re learning all the time when none of us are born leaders right you have to learn and be

7:07 confident in what you have to be a good leader so the that that curiosity to

7:13 learn has has always been with me I always say I’m most worried about intellectual

7:18 boredom right I consult now which I took a step back from full-time job and every

7:23 day I’m sitting going how am I not going to be intellectually challenged right that that’s what I really want to be so

7:29 I think that that continuity of learning is is so critical for leadership um I think the there’s

7:36 another aspect which I learned much later in my life I’ll be honest I I was

7:41 very ambitious very go get it was about put your head down and keep working it’s a very Indian immigrant mentality in me

7:49 um trying to be receptive and a little more empathy towards your co-workers

7:54 it’s very critical um I literally this was this was something I have to say I

7:59 learned when I was um heading a team at Regeneron where I had to actually learn how to be quiet and listen because I’m

8:06 one of those people that when you’re talking the opinion is already forming and literally had to train myself be

8:12 quiet be quiet listen and let them let them finish their thought before I you

8:18 know interrupt them so the the ability and empathy to listen to others is is

8:23 really critical I think with those two qualities you really can be a good leader and never second yourself right

8:30 the moment you second yourself people can read that on your face um I mean I took as I mentioned I took positions

8:37 that I had no clue about but something told me I’ll I’ll go do it and you try

8:43 if it doesn’t work then you move on to something else nothing is a finality for us here yeah

8:49 absolutely and and you talk about these core values of and and I wrote some down

8:55 one was the ability to ask for help you also so brought up continuous learning

9:01 and curiosity empathy and never kind of

9:07 questioning yourself like it’s okay to fail so again how do you operationalize

9:14 that as a leader is it the qualities of people you hire or is it the space you

9:20 give yeah it’s it’s actually both you’ve you’ve said it really well um I think the best managers I’ve had

9:27 are people who let me do my job right I because if what was the point of hiring if you need to

9:34 micromanage um my bosses knew that if I came to them it was important they knew

9:39 I I don’t come to them unless it’s really really important and that’s how I like to manage and hence I was not

9:45 always the best manager because I realized a lot of people need handholding and that’s okay but that was

9:50 my learning that not everyone is going to get managed the way I got managed um so you definitely need to I think you

9:57 need to give people space um I also like to hire people based on experience right

10:04 um the education is was always very critical in my upbringing I was always

10:09 brought up with the thinking that if you get a great education you can do whatever and I truly truly believe um

10:17 when I first started in this space and started hiring people I used to first go look where did they go to school it’s

10:22 just that’s how I was brought up I realized soon after it wasn’t where

10:27 they went to school I wanted to see what what work they had done and that’s the connection I look for because if they

10:34 have worked and they have developed themselves it doesn’t matter where they came from I’m I’m more interested in

10:39 what they’re doing now yeah um and so those are absolutely two things that I really really look for uh while working

10:46 with people and when I entor people is is create you know create your journey

10:52 don’t try and follow somebody else’s journey and that only can happen with your own experience and getting the the

10:58 space and the flexibility by whoever you’re working with to develop that’s so interesting so it you

11:06 now are leading your own organization and the the the instead of having people

11:13 on your team that you’re managing you’re managing clients and so it changes the next

11:19 question a little bit because um typically at this point we refer to you

11:24 know an organizational mission and ask how that’s oper operationalized perhaps beyond the walls of the workplace which

11:31 I’m sure you can speak to for for your organization but but knowing you and and

11:36 just even thinking about some of the qualities you’ve brought up that um that are really intrinsic to who you are how

11:44 does how does that shape the work that you do or how do you instill those

11:50 values into you know your work with other

11:55 organizations and and then maybe to the world beyond if that applies so really

12:01 really good question right and very different from what we’ve been talking about so I when you are a leader in

12:07 organization you are in charge you have authority right you’re the decision maker well step back a little bit and

12:14 become a consultant you’re not Insurance you don’t have authority you hopefully

12:19 are still a leader that’s why they want to work with you it took me a couple of years to figure that out I went from a a

12:27 very um active decision-making sort of lifestyle to not being part of the

12:33 decision making, they took your advice but a lot of times they might not execute on it

12:39 and I used I used to question that a lot and I’m like am I not giving the right advice that’s where the confidence in

12:45 yourselves stays right like hey I’m going to step they asking me for advice it’s up to them they have their own

12:50 leaders in the organization to to do this so now six years out I’ve been

12:56 consulting now for six years um I am much more comfortable doing that I know

13:01 how to do that a little bit better I think where I I’m very candid in my in

13:07 in my opinions and my thoughts but I’m very respectful that there’s an organization that there’s a team there

13:13 that has to make the decision fortunately it’s worked um but I the

13:18 leadership quality you know as if if you’re advising clients is um

13:23 patience um understanding on a different level because you really have to understand and what they are asking of

13:31 you and what are they trying to accomplish because you’re not living their life every day when you’re in an

13:36 organization that’s the life you’re living every day now you’re bringing an outside perspective and not all outside

13:42 perspective is credible for them right so you have to be very careful you know

13:48 words like may I suggest Maybe This Way; those become much more integral in your

13:54 life versus this is what we’re going to do yeah so it’s a very different style of leadership now and in you know

14:01 they’ve brought you in because you have some experience and expertise that their team does not have at this time so you

14:07 have to also understand that team is growing and is going to take charge in leadership and then you might have a

14:12 different role with them um so again appreciating sort of this Dynamic sort of way of working um independently

14:21 without anybody coaching you um it’s it’s a very interesting I I love it don’t get me wrong I absolutely love it

14:26 I don’t want to go back to full-time job ever but um it it’s been a lot of learning you know I I left saying I I

14:34 can do this of course I know my skill set uh much different skills that needed now well and I think that’s a great

14:41 point to bring up because you do have this the hard skills but now as a

14:46 consultant you’re learning the soft skills and it’s the people and how do you communicate to the people so what

14:53 are some learnings that that you’ve had over the last six years um I think the

14:58 first first one is to understand um what is it that they really want you to help

15:04 with um as you as Tanis pointed out I I do sort of different stages of companies

15:09 and everybody has a different need so really really trying to understand I’m very honest with all my clients I don’t

15:16 just because someone comes to me I don’t say let’s sign a contract and let’s start working I actually spend some time

15:22 talking to the client to really understand what is it that they want because sometimes what they’re asking

15:29 for looking for I that’s not my specialty right? On the per.. on sorry, superficial level it might look like it

15:35 but actually when we start talking about the work sometimes it matches sometimes it doesn’t so really being honest uh

15:41 about about what you can bring to the table based on your client’s request so

15:48 that’s the first communication that’s needed then um being respectful of the people who are in the

15:55 organization right um a lot of organizations I work with have um

16:01 personnel who have not had this many years of experience um so you might come in with

16:07 arrogance and say of course I’ve been in this business for so long I know what I’m talking about no that’s not the case you

16:12 can never ever ever say that you have to say I have experience that I can share with you so you can have those

16:18 experiences right so it’s again this goes back to sort of being empathetic and and consider it before it was to

16:24 your own team members now it is to your clients like really because any time I I don’t know if you’ve had situations when

16:31 consultants come in or outside people come in people are threatened a little bit like am I not doing my job right and

16:37 my goal always is communicating to them that I’m here only to help I’m not interested in in in your and then really

16:45 being there to listen to them I there’re different organizations I work with with different sized teams and there are

16:50 certain individuals on those organization that just use me as a soundboard like they just want to say hey I dealt with this did you deal with

16:56 this and so really the a little of the mentoring aspect comes in there because

17:02 for better for worse I’ve had decent amount of experience launching products now U so I always tell people I go I

17:08 probably have a story to tell anytime you have an issue so let’s talk um so just having that that being there as a

17:15 listener and almost as a you know a mentor is is very helpful so this is a

17:21 podcast about leadership but part of leadership is you know building operations and building teams when when

17:29 you were hiring people to work on your team you spoke a little bit about the qualities that you looked for what do

17:36 you think are integral qualities that someone who’s going to be successful as a leader in a large

17:43 organization have and what about in a smaller organization are they the same or yeah so, I at least in my field I can

17:52 talk about it I think leadership changes as the size of the organization changes

17:57 right so in in a very small company I work with a company that has only three people for example and I I worked in a

18:04 company that was 10,000 people um the leadership quality that it’s kind of

18:09 what we call the sort of the founding leaders right they have to be much more nimble much more um

18:15 adaptable um and a lot of times founding leadership doesn’t make it to the

18:21 execution leadership right it happens much more often than we would like to think and the reason is not that they

18:26 feel it’s just that the leadership that for large organizations it’s much more

18:32 structured and people who have this kind of brain that works dynamically every day fixing things and doing things they

18:38 can’t work in a structured environment that me included right I can only take so much structure uh but if I have to

18:44 only follow rules every day I would be fired in a day um so so that’s that’s

18:50 the big difference I see right um and so you have to roll up your sleeves and do

18:55 everything in a small startup um in big bigger companies there’s a lot of

19:00 delegation right because there’s no way one person can do really another

19:05 important thing that I learned in my journey because I was an individual contributor, and I did everything on my

19:11 own um learning to delegate is probably some we underestimate it took me a

19:18 really long time to say it’s yours go do it and that goes back to the space we were talking like go do your job but

19:24 delegation was for me to start giving up some of my stuff which I was so in control of

19:29 and it works I learned I learned it works now I’m happy to delegate um but that’s another journey of of so that’s

19:36 sort of the evolution of the leadership I think it’s it’s the the flex the flexible environment to a structure

19:41 environment and learning to give to delegate to your team and not being in control of everything so what qualities

19:48 do you look for when you’re hiring leaders um I’ve number one is experience

19:54 there’s nothing and it doesn’t have to be the traditional experience it’s just as somebody who who’s really

20:02 worked hard you can sense that you know I the the one thing I’ll I’ll say something what too much movement is

20:09 something that makes me pause a little bit if they’ve really jumped around for no reason there are sometimes very

20:14 deliberate reasons for it um so experiences is really really critical um

20:21 I also look at how um for a leader especially right how interactive and

20:26 communicative they are if you are very sort of stern or very um sort of

20:33 amicable to talk to I think one of the reasons um my teams have done well and

20:39 and the teams that I’ve worked with is there’s such a communal sort of environment and the the teams that I

20:45 know didn’t work well when there was too much of a hierarchy and that’s the sternness versus the amicable part I’m

20:51 talking you don’t have to be loved but it’s a communal environment I think those are probably the most important um

20:58 things that I would look for and of course you know there’s so many other aspects of sort of have you what other

21:04 specific job you’ve done that’s different but from a personality perspective that’s what I would look for

21:09 yeah and it’s interesting again these learnings that we you know with experience we gain so when you look back

21:18 what advice would you give your 20-year-old self? Learn to let

21:25 go. No I would would tell the 20-year-old which is the number one thing I’ve done

21:31 in my life is take risks I would say take every risk

21:36 possible there’s not you’re not going to fall and even if you fall you learn

21:42 something from that right um I think Tannis might know this I I believe in the statement and I that I try to live a

21:49 life of no regret not because I’ve made not made mistakes I’ve made plenty of mistakes um look at everything as an

21:55 experience a a bad experience it’s still something you learn from so for me

22:01 taking that’s why you can take the risk because there should not be any regret about taking it I would that’s the

22:06 number one um advice I would have given myself unfortunately I think I did it so I’m okay yeah can you share with us one

22:13 example of when you’ve taken that leap you’ve taken that risk and it didn’t

22:18 work out oh well it’s all it’s all relative right

22:26 um I I would say that it’s it’s not that it didn’t um it’s not that it didn’t work out it was how much work I had to

22:35 put in so um I’m not saying it’s been an easy journey in any way and that’s why I don’t like to say it was a failure

22:43 because there’s small events that happened but um when I got hired um at

22:48 Regeneron for for leading this team um again I was encouraged by the physicians

22:54 I worked with to go I they are the ones who supported my and I had experience

23:00 but on paper I probably did not have as much experience that that role needed

23:05 but these guys believed in me and said go do it and we’ll support you one of

23:10 one of the individuals who I respect a lot um said this to me he he I hold him

23:16 to the utmost respect he said he was the one he said you’re not experienced enough

23:23 but we know you can do it that thought stuck with me every single day that I

23:28 went to the office and it took me two years to prove myself trust me it didn’t happen overnight um but that was the

23:35 risk I took that I was so scared that I was going to fail so the failure was in my head because I’m like I don’t know how to do this I don’t know how to do

23:42 this and then that thought would take me forward that go do this there are people

23:47 believing in me so I don’t answer your question directly but I’m just saying it was not an immediate success it just

23:54 still took time well you know I have a question yeah I’m like that that’s so interesting

24:00 so in that scenario fear of failure was a really big catalyst for you do you

24:07 think that that’s optimal no it wasn’t a fear of failure, it was fear of letting the people down who supported me yes

24:14 okay yes that was what drove me right so for better for I’ve there’s been a lot

24:20 of support like even moving to the United States at a very young age it was the fear of letting my parents down

24:27 right because the investment they had to put in for for me to come here was huge so I have this sort of innate nature to

24:37 to keep up what people are expecting from me some might say that’s good some might say that’s not that great you shouldn’t but I I do it because I

24:44 respect these people who are putting so much support behind me and was there a flip somewhere on that journey where it

24:51 turned into doing it for yourself too the decision I take is for myself

24:57 Mmhm, the success I do it for myself and everyone else so the decision is always mine yeah because I’m the one who has to

25:03 do it so I’m not doing it because somebody told me to do it I’m doing it because I know it’s the right thing to

25:09 do but the support takes me forward and you’ve had that support in this

25:14 incredible mentorship you know yeah throughout your career and and you mentioned early on

25:22 that being a woman in a male dominated industry so I’m going to ask you the same question about the advice but what

25:31 advice would you give a 20-year-old newbie woman starting in this

25:36 industry the number one thing I’ll say is rely on your skill set don’t don’t

25:43 bring gender up before your skill bring your skill first yes gender will come up

25:48 I’m not going to deny that but if your skill set is good the respect will come

25:55 and so that’s that’s the number one I till this I I do I do mentor a few women

26:00 and this is my standard line don’t think about oh I’m a woman in this man’s field think about I have these qualifications

26:07 to be in this field so that would be the first one and you have this is this is

26:13 where sort of I I do know the difference comes is you do have to work a little extra hard it is just that’s the nature

26:20 of the game right either you can fight it or you can just do it and I did it

26:25 yeah absolutely and mentor ing I think is also very

26:31 important you know you’ve brought it up it’s impactful it’s helped you know it it

26:38 really does and I I come from a family of educators um I’ve always like to teach

26:45 um Tanis will tell you I was tutoring ever since freshman year because I just love to teach and I think very early in

26:51 my life I realized the more you teach the more you learn right because um I

26:56 never like to study too much I just wanted to do like but so I used to teach and that way I used to learn and it was

27:01 great and I think that’s where mentoring plays a role here now because when you

27:07 mentor people you learn from them as well it’s not just you you guiding them

27:13 you’re learning so much because we can get sometimes so isolated in our own Island and the world is exploding in

27:20 such beautiful ways with people with so much creative energies I want to learn from them I mean you know I have three

27:26 nephews I love listening to what they’re doing because this is a generation that

27:31 eventually is going to be working with us too so I don’t want that disconnect like maybe we had with our parents

27:37 generation in the workforce absolutely yeah it there’s so there’s so

27:42 many amazing things here um I want to ask one question before we get into our

27:48 our last thing about you know what ises hiring for good mean to you so when when

27:54 you how do you decide to take on a mentor do does some you do meet someone do someone formally ask you or do do you

28:01 just run into someone that you’re like they could really use my help like what are what does that look like for you that mentorship process is it kind of

28:07 organic or is it I think everything I would say my life has bit more organic than I would like to think a place when

28:14 they’re supposed to fall into place I offer a lot um I if I if somebody

28:20 asked me a question if they’ve already asked I don’t force anything on anyone but I always offer to say call me

28:27 anytime I keep my phone and my doors open as much as I can um and people know

28:33 that um my field is not that big it is actually pretty small um so people you

28:40 have to make them feel comfortable that if they talk to me I’m not judging them and that’s kind of the opening of it um

28:46 I always tell younger people that anytime they have a question and they

28:51 can go to someone call me I will find an answer for them so keeping those doors open is is the most critical and running

28:58 into people all the time we my specialty is notorious for how many conferences we

29:04 have so we’re always seeing each other that’s why we’re all great friends um so

29:09 uh we’re always talking to people yeah so creating that sort of kind of very um

29:15 sort of open environment that there’s no judgment is probably what uh how I connect with people and then one

29:20 follow up on that how is that process shaped by the people that supported you oh this is I learned it from somewhere

29:27 right yeah it’s this well you’re you’re a little bit innately like this though I I think you are like that so I’m curious

29:33 to know like in what ways did the so I think for for people who are looking to

29:40 get guidance realizing that they need guidance is the first step and as I mentioned before I have never had any

29:47 issues asking for help because not everybody knows everything right and if

29:53 you’re surrounded by such brilliant people around you what’s wrong with you from them um

30:00 so very very accomplished individuals I’ve had that privilege to work with and

30:05 if they could keep their doors open that’s what I’m doing now right that’s how I learned beautiful yeah I love that

30:13 yes so so this podcast is called hiring for good and um so what does that mean

30:22 for you hiring for me creating the right teams is the most critical not

30:29 everyone’s going to fit everywhere right and it’s all right not everybody’s supposed to work on everything um so

30:35 hiring for good for me would be creating that environment where it’s the right people working together on the right

30:42 things um one of the things I do ad hoc consult not it’s not a

30:48 official consulting but because I work with so many companies if people are looking for individuals to fill up

30:54 positions or people that I’ve met they’re looking for a new position I try to match them I’m a matchmaker a little

31:01 bit um and I am very careful about who I propose where both both ways for that

31:09 reason it has to be the right fit and go get the right fit because you’re you’re

31:14 not a manager or the team is not going to get the most benefit and the person

31:20 we’re always growing right the person’s joining a team to work and to grow and that person is not going to get the right fit so it’s really really

31:26 important that that m match is made the right way you’re speaking our language

31:32 our she didn’t tell me this this is yeah no that I mean that is exactly

31:38 what we always say too and it is so important so that it is hugely important I think we people look at the individual

31:44 I like to look at the individual in context of the team right 100% yeah and it’s all those small nuances that unless

31:52 you understand that team it’s hard to match that yes and um because every

31:59 person you know is is different and every team is different I’m going to say one thing which might might not resonate

32:05 but I think one of the other things that people have to understand if things are not working it’s okay to walk away oh

32:12 what a good right it’s not it’s not a failure it’s this was not working I’m

32:18 going to go use my experience somewhere else and and it’s okay there’s nothing wrong with

32:24 that wise words I love that and and I also love intellectually boring like

32:31 like you said that earlier on and it keeps it’s stuck in me and I love that

32:38 of always being challenged and thinking and yeah it I’ll do a positive on that I

32:44 call it intellectual curiosity there you go I I love that I want to be intellectually curious every day I think

32:52 it’s a driving force I I mean it’s really interesting we had an interview um earlier a woman named Dawn Jagger and

33:00 she spoke to some of the same exact themes she was saying you know if she’s not

33:06 learning it’s it’s not a good environment for her you she wants to be constantly learning yeah and and I think

33:12 it’s easy for individuals as we get more experience to think we know it we know

33:19 that job but we do go do something else it’s going to be new learnings I I work with sort of now more personnel

33:26 sometimes less science right I didn’t develop big personal structures before

33:32 but now you learn it’s something different to learn you know so there’s every role you’re going to take in life

33:38 something else you’re going to learn and that’s why I you know learning to walk away when things are you know not great

33:45 or plateauing I walked away um from my last company Regeneron not for any other

33:51 reason I had plateaued. Mmhm. I wanted to go do something different and I knew that if I stay there I’m going to be doing

33:57 the same job so every role will give you a new experience it doesn’t matter

34:03 personally professionally right it’s everywhere we just need to acknowledge it that’s beautiful I don’t think that

34:09 there’s any better way to end honestly thank you thank you thank you so much

34:14 for being here and sharing it’s it’s again it’s amazing that you’ve had all

34:21 these experiences and can really bring it all

34:27 together and and I think that’s beautiful so thank you so much for coming and sharing

34:32 this with us oh thank you for having me here this was amazing yes um you can catch Namrada uh she’ll be back in Oregon

34:39 to speak to Oregon Bio Women in July she’ll be here to kind of share some of

34:44 her wisdom in person and um and then she’s working globally with all kinds of

34:51 organizations to um support them so thank you so much for coming to hiring for good and um just such a pleasure to

34:58 have you here and I have to say yeah if you like follow and subscribe there you

35:05 go all right thank you thanks for joining us today at Hiring for Good if

35:10 you inspired by our conversation don’t forget to like, follow, and subscribe wherever you get your podcast and if you

35:16 want to learn more about our executive Search Services check us out at www

35:22 hiring for good dot net or our company website Acumen Executive Search. Thanks

35:27 so much and don’t forget to join us next time for another in-depth conversation about transformational leadership until

35:33 then have fun