Hiring for Good is a podcast exploring the transformative power of leadership and what happens when the right person takes the job. The Hiring for Good Podcast is Presented by Acumen Executive Search. Thank you for tuning in to this episode with Andy Mendenhall M.D, President & CEO of Central City Concern (CCC).
Hiring For Good Website: https://www.hiringforgood.net/
Andy Mendenhall M.D.: Andy joined CCC in 2017 as Senior Medical Director for Substance Use Disorder Services (SUDS) and became Chief Medical Officer (CMO) in 2018. During his tenure, Andy has elevated and diversified CCC’s service level to offer a broad array of evidence-based treatments to match client needs. As CMO, Andy brought oversight and responsibility for the agency’s medical and clinical services, provided leadership to staff, helped set the agency’s strategic direction, promoted ethical and quality care and led CCC through the COVID-19 pandemic.
Andy Mendenhall M.D. Linkedin:/andy-mendenhall-m-d-8803b3114
About Central City Concern: Since 1979, the Portland community has trusted Central City Concern to help people create meaningful, long-term change. Every year, we serve more than 15,000 people experiencing or at risk of homelessness with affordable and supportive housing, person-centered health care, addiction recovery and employment assistance. But we can’t do it alone.
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Tanis Morris: Director of Business Development at Acumen Executive Search Email: tanis@acumenexecutivesearch.com
Suzanne Hanifin: President at Acumen Executive Search Email: suzanne@acumenexecutivesearch.com
Acumen Executive Search, Portland, Oregon, is proud to present the Hiring For Good Podcast. Join us as we examine the transformative power of leadership. Through discussions with impactful leaders, we explore hiring for longevity, hiring to elevate organizational operations and mindset, and how the effects of exceptional leadership extend far beyond the walls of the workplace. Follow Acumen Executive Search to be notified of new episodes.
Hiring for Good Transcript:
0:00 well hi this is Suzanne Hanifin with Acumen Executive Search and I’m sad to
0:05 say my lovely co-host Tanis Morris is not here today but for those who are new
0:11 at joining Hiring for Good podcast it is a podcast of best in practices in
0:17 leadership and we are so excited today to have Dr Andy
0:22 Mendenhall. Andy is the current CEO of City Central Concern and has really this
0:31 incredible background not only an MD but a co-founder of your own practice,
0:38 moved on through you know working within substance use disorder and other
0:45 expertise to now today being the CEO of one of Oregon’s largest
0:51 nonprofits and probably and I’m not sure Andy, you can correct me on this but also Oregon’s largest nonprofit on
0:58 substance use disorder order and mental health. That’s correct. That’s what I
1:04 thought yeah so so again I can walk through your background but it’s better
1:09 to hear it from you so share with us your journey and how did you get where you are today. Thank you Suzanne such an
1:15 honor to be here um and and look forward to our dialogue together. My journey has
1:21 been um blessed by a ton of different mentors I knew very early on that I wanted to be a physician um courtesy of
1:29 Alan Alda Hawkeye Pierce and MASH um and I went to college at the University of
1:35 Portland was able to matriculate to medical school at Oregon Health and Sciences University this is back in the
1:41 mid 90s completed my training there and then was able to stay as a family
1:46 medicine physician and the folks that I resonated most with in medical training
1:51 were the family the family docs um they were humanists they were generalists they were interested in knowing people
1:58 as well as um medical diagnosis as well as
2:03 Behavioral Health diagnosis and um I always just felt at
2:09 home in the presence of people that thought the same way that I did so I found my medical home as a family
2:16 medicine specialist and then made my way out to um Newberg Oregon which is a
2:22 bedroom community of Portland um and went to work for a large health system
2:27 out there as as a family doc and during that time period we kind of did it all
2:34 um I attended in the hospital I occasionally moonlit in the emergency room we admitted our own patients and we
2:41 admitted patients from what we would call City Call meaning you were just up and you got to admit that person and one
2:47 day in 2005 I had the opportunity to admit a person from a well-known um uh
2:55 Residential Treatment Facility um this facility was owned and operated still is by the Hazelden now the Hazelden Betty
3:01 Ford Foundation and um the ER called me this person needed to be admitted to the
3:08 hospital for complicated alcohol withdrawal didn’t think twice about it I’d learned how to do that in residency
3:14 and um admitted the person they had an unremarkable course and then the next day the medical director of that Center
3:22 called me and said I was the first physician in the community of Newberg in the eight years they had been operating
3:28 there that had ever admitted one of their patients to the local hospital every other patient had been sent 20
3:35 plus miles down the road to a different hospital which meant that there was disconnection from the treatment center
3:41 and actually a large number of the folks that were referred there actually wouldn’t go back to the treatment center because of that lack of connection and I
3:47 thought to myself in that moment which was a pivotal moment for me gosh here is a person suffering from substance use
3:53 disorder. 10 to 11% of Americans have a lifetime probability of developing a
4:00 moderate to severe substance use disorder one in four American families as we’re speaking today are impacted by
4:07 substance use disorder and nobody seems to want to take care of these folks and that became a pivotal moment for me to
4:14 become an addiction medicine specialist in 2008 open up a private practice in
4:20 partnership with um my very close friend and colleague Dr Paul Conti who’s a
4:25 published author podcast uh uh guest and um founder of Pacific Premier Group
4:32 which is based here in Portland Oregon we we really heated the call from the
4:38 general population of individuals that were suffering from substance use disorder also had pain management
4:43 challenges psychiatric challenges and we found a niche and we’re very successful over a couple year period of time
4:49 founding that Hazelden Betty Ford ended up acquiring that practice and I’ve took
4:55 a couple of different leadership steps over the last 10 years including my tenure at Central City Concern over the
5:01 last seven to as the president and CEO well and it’s interesting because a lot
5:06 of people would never say that well I shouldn’t say never but it’s not typical for an
5:12 MD to be raised up into leadership position and the transition from you
5:20 know practicing in one-on-one relationship to then look strategically how is that transition for
5:28 you so it’s a it’s a great point um as Healthcare in America has transformed
5:34 and in many ways um consolidated into large agencies there has been a need for
5:39 the development of leaders of clinicians and clinician groups and as we start to
5:46 think more about the health of populations um there has been the
5:51 opportunity for individuals to differentiate from um working in a
5:56 clinic or working in a hospital and delivering clinical care um all day every day if you will I did a fellowship
6:02 between 2003 and 2004 in clinical leadership and I had no idea where that was going to uh lead me to but I’ve
6:10 always had a natural proclivity and enjoyed helping develop other people and
6:15 I see that as a core competency of any supervisor any manager any leader and
6:21 for me what happened ultimately was I saw the opportunity to influence how
6:26 Healthcare was delivered for individuals with substance use to and that ultimately led me in the
6:32 direction of um working um 10 years ago
6:37 um after my tenure with Hazelden Betty Ford I worked for a venture capital back company um based out of Northampton
6:44 Massachusetts for a couple of years where we were um rapidly growing and
6:49 rapidly deploying brick and mortar centers to expand access to treatment of substance use disorders so I realized at
6:56 that point in my career that I could influence the health of much larger populations by choosing to be in
7:03 leadership and um and I’ve I I think if there’s a natural gift anywhere it’s the
7:09 fact that I love human beings number one and I want to see people grow and
7:14 develop and be happy um and I also want to see our populations meaning society as a
7:22 whole get healthier and what I recognized is that my individual
7:27 contributions made a difference for example when I was a family physician in the little town of of
7:32 Newberg right and I couldn’t walk down the aisle of a grocery store without
7:38 people saying hello and and sometimes like turning my ear longer than I wanted them to um but you know that was one
7:44 chapter of my career now my chapter the chapter of my career that I feel so blessed about is helping really amazing
7:52 teams of really amazing human beings influence the health of literally thousands of individuals in our
7:59 community on a day-to-day week to year-to-year basis with the goal of growing and
8:04 closing the gaps in service that exist here in Portland Oregon in particular um
8:09 so much so that unfortunately we make the news frequently about a lot of the challenges in our community oh
8:15 absolutely and as a recruiter who brings people to Portland a lot it’s an interesting
8:21 conversation and I always say what makes this area so unique is that we’re able
8:26 to have those conversations and and we don’t push it aside and you
8:33 with your leadership at CCC again you’re you’re changing the conversation so
8:40 today you talk about this Gap what are some of the initiatives your
8:45 organization is taking on and what’s the long-term impact of that
8:52 very good yes thank you Suzanne um first I’ll ground the listeners and viewers in
8:58 who we are and what we do so we’re a 45-year-old Community nonprofit organization that provides
9:04 services in healthcare to low-income individuals under what’s referred to as a federally qualified Health Center
9:11 umbrella we have one of the most complex and broad portfolios of Health Care
9:17 Services of any healthcare for the homeless federally qualified Health Center in the United States and we we
9:23 marry that up with a large portfolio of owned housing that is deeply affordable
9:30 transitional 2800 units housing 4,500 people per year we served 11,000 people
9:38 in our health centers last year and then we also combined that with the ability for folks to have
9:44 supportive employment services so we help people navigate this journey from basically being houseless with an active
9:51 substance use disorder or severe mental illness through to being in recovery
9:57 housed employed paying their own rent under a lease agreement and um last year
10:03 we touched the lives of um just just shy of 17,000 people so our organization has
10:10 grown over time um in our community right now and in our state we are living
10:16 in a in a time where we have a housing Gap we also have a shelter Gap and um
10:23 while things objectively look a little bit better unfortunately we know that um the number of unsheltered individuals in
10:30 Multnomah County um has grown year-over-year um since the beginning of the pandemic and actually a little bit before that
10:36 and in January of 2024 there were 5,400 individuals living in Multnomah County who
10:42 were unsheltered um what that means is they’re living outside or they’re living in a car um we have the highest per
10:50 capita rate of unsheltered homelessness in the United States and it’s unacceptable right I’m happy that there
10:56 are some good plans to build to scale some shelter um and also build housing
11:02 our role in that is to provide mobile Health Services to shelter and shelter sites and also to work on helping build
11:10 some of the housing capacity um that the region needs all of that if you will is
11:16 sort of the foundation of the challenges that are decades in the making in Oregon
11:21 in that we are consistently in the bottom five in terms of uh per capita
11:27 access nationally to psychiatric Residential Services substance use disorder residential
11:33 services and broader Behavioral Health Services that are not residential to meet the needs of individuals with
11:40 substance use disorder with severe pervasive mental illness our state disinvested um three to four decades ago
11:48 in um the behavioral health system of care and we are going to have to spend
11:53 the next five or six years invest a ton of dollars in investing in the workforce investing in the brick and mortar
11:59 um facilities and programs that are required both within the Tri-County’s
12:05 area but across the state in order to close those gaps because unfortunately we have an aging population that’s aging
12:11 into poverty aging with a higher risk of homelessness than ever before and we
12:16 also have this issue of the opioid epidemic and the methamphetamine
12:21 epidemic that’s driving acuity among the substance use in severe mentally ill populations. Yeah I did not realize we
12:28 were in the bottom which is very disappointing because I think most people feel vested into our community
12:35 and believe in our community well and and we’re kind of going a little bit out
12:40 of order of my questions but I want to bring this up that you know City Central Concern CCC
12:48 cannot do it alone you have to get different Community Partners involved,
12:54 the state, the the counties, what’s kind of the road map
12:59 that you’re taking and are part of thanks Suzanne we see ourselves as uh
13:06 trusted advisors as well as service providers and so um under my leadership
13:12 and i’ I’ve been really proud to bring forward a population Health strategy that um one of our regional Coordinated
13:20 Care organizations Health Share of Oregon and one of the member organizations um are very important
13:27 Medicaid funding Partner Care Oregon have said yes that was a pretty good idea let’s find out the size scope and
13:34 scale of populations of individuals with severe mental illness meaning
13:39 specifically psychosis substance use disorder specifically stimulant use disorder or opioid use disorder so think
13:46 meth and Fentanyl and nobody had ever asked that question before and literally how big
13:52 were the populations what’s the growth trends it’s pretty simple data like on on I’m really not a rocket scientist far
13:58 from it right just simple questions we can anchor that in paid claims data meaning if somebody had a paid health
14:06 care service for a particular diagnosis we can see it we also know very specifically it’s a very accurate data
14:12 set and um this data was pulled over the last year what we know unfortunately is
14:18 that in this region about 10% of the Medicaid population so less fortunate
14:24 individuals were driving about 40% of the Total Healthcare cost
14:30 and that’s not sustainable right there’s a a really important storyline there because most of that expense is not
14:36 driving outcome it’s paying to treat the complications of untreated homelessness
14:41 untreated behavioral health conditions specifically in this case more substance use disordered as well as um other types
14:49 of severe um mental illness so the the good news is now that we’ve got our head wrapped around how big the challenges
14:56 are we can benchmark against those numbers to see how is our system doing are we gaining ground are
15:03 we improving access to services and engagement of those clients or not and
15:08 once you have a data set that gives you a common language right um then you can
15:14 start to ensure through you know advocacy work through education work
15:21 that our government officials receive the right briefing and can create a
15:26 sense of alignment in terms of what are the necessary strategies at the city, the county, the state, even the federal level
15:33 as we think about ear you know pulling down earmark dollars and the need for that as well um all of those things can
15:38 be aligned in a way that um I think previously the data didn’t necessarily
15:44 support and as a result because the data wasn’t there and as a result folks just sort of took a bit more of a scattershot
15:51 or a less aligned approach to solving the problems of the region and the state a..a.. absolutely and I think it’s
15:57 interesting listening to this I can hear all these leadership qualities because
16:03 whether it’s with CCC or nonprofit or government involvement numbers measuring
16:11 where are we where are we going how are we doing and always checking that in and
16:18 also as a leader I’m listening to you you know I’m hearing this sense
16:25 of oh I’m trying to think of the right word that you obviously bring in a lot
16:30 of your personal values into what you do every day talk about some of those
16:36 values and how you’ve been able to operationalize that at CCC thanks
16:42 Suzanne um I think I I consider myself a
16:48 humanist right what does that mean I see human beings and I see their intrinsic
16:53 an inherent value um I I can’t tell you where that comes from but I feel like
17:00 that’s a central part of of my being we can think Mash thanks yeah thank you um
17:07 and and a lot of mentors and seeing good role modeling and all that um and and so
17:14 I I like to bring a strength-based humanistic approach to my leadership and
17:21 what that means at Central City Concern is creating
17:26 um a safe and emotional just work culture not a gotcha culture not a
17:32 fear-based culture um because trust me there’s plenty of things in homeless services
17:37 and working with folks that are at the deep end of the pool that can be pretty fearful especially when folks aren’t doing well the last thing people need is
17:44 that from their supervisors or their managers or certainly their executive team um I also think that part of
17:52 creating that safety is a willingness to talk about the things that aren’t going
17:57 well a willingness to lean into those things because it’s easy to celebrate the good stuff right and and everybody
18:04 wants to do that and you you have to do a certain amount of that to create um
18:09 that that if you will lineage and cultural engagement but I’ve found that
18:15 there is been the most important conversations happen when you’re talking and create a
18:22 safe frame talking about the things that didn’t go well or aren’t going well and need help and support because now we’re
18:27 having real conversations and I fundamentally believe that everybody gets out of bed certainly in my
18:34 organization but I think in life like most people are getting out of bed trying to do their very best and if we
18:39 start from that platform and can create a frame of safety then we can say what’s needed to help someone or help a team be
18:46 successful as opposed to that team has failed I I would say you know where are we as Leaders where did we set them up
18:53 to not be successful it’s our accountability to help the people that that we are offered the privilege to
19:00 lead the opportunity to be and function and serve at their very best yeah and we
19:05 were very fortunate to have both a state person in this podcast and somebody from
19:11 Multnomah County on this podcast and we talked about burnout and especially
19:17 Post COVID and in your business I would imagine the burnout and
19:25 the turnover would be incredible high how are you as a leader dealing
19:32 with that uh it’s a challenged area first and foremost so um I won’t say
19:38 that the words I’m about to offer mean that we’ve you know solved the problem crack this right exactly um it’s true
19:45 that it’s very hard both in the health care space and the housing space even in the employ in the employment space it’s
19:51 very hard for people serving the least fortunate most vulnerable members of our
19:57 community and society to come to work every day and to know that eight out of 10 times that they have somebody who
20:05 needs something they’re not going to be able to get them that which they need today or possibly even in the next
20:10 couple of months right the first is just shelter beds shelter space or shelter alternative space the second is housing
20:18 and a lot of the people that we’re working with are today and tonight and tomorrow they will be sleeping
20:25 outside um and and many of those individuals and also people that are
20:31 housed but are struggling with active substance use are struggling with active
20:37 severe mental illness that needs to be restabilized or treated they’re on Long Way lists to get treatment so so the
20:44 fact that we live in the wealthiest country on the planet and and there are basic needs for treatment access service
20:52 access housing food food instability all the things that folks um
20:59 don’t have access to it’s really hard for a workforce to show up every day be their best knowing that 20% of the time
21:07 they’re going to be able to close the big gaps in a way that that is meaningful and then they also it’s smart
21:13 folks right they see the complications of those unmet needs and um so how we
21:20 how we mitigate that is we talk about it we talk about it actively um my staff know that we are working very hard to
21:27 drive strategy in a positive and forward way um and and we’re hoping that um in
21:33 Multnomah County um our our colleagues at uh City and County government are going to
21:39 succeed in the deployment of the homelessness response action plan the HP
21:44 um the final version of that was just brought forward this week um we’re really proud to have offered um our
21:51 expertise in the development of that content we believe in the content now the key is execution yeah right well and
21:58 and it’s not just again what I’ve Loved about your you know your background and
22:03 your approach is you’re not working individually but you’re bringing the community together saying we can help
22:10 this but we need all of us on the same page with all these different initiatives that you’ve either sponsored
22:17 or part of so in the next five years let’s kind of have a crystal ball what
22:23 do you see and how is that going to change our community that we live in
22:29 I’m really hopeful for our community Suzanne and I say that sincerely it’s uh
22:34 it I’m I’m hopeful because we have the data now we have alignment we have um
22:40 Health Systems Partners around the table um really leaning in saying yeah we
22:45 agree this isn’t sustainable we have our healthcare funding Partners saying saying the same thing and what I believe
22:52 we’re going to see over the next 5 years is we’re going to see a significant closure in the gap for unsheltered
22:59 members of our community and along with that it’s not just the shelter it’s shelter plus Supportive Services to help
23:05 people stabilize enough to then be able to benefit from a housing intervention
23:12 and there’s a ton of inventory out there right now that’s not fully deployed in terms of housing inventory out in the
23:19 community um low-income housing um there’s there’s some vacancies out there
23:24 in the rental market in particular and when people get healthy enough and and that’s an important narrative we see
23:30 people get healthy every single day we take people and and um and I can talk
23:35 about outcomes here in a minute but we wouldn’t be doing this work if we weren’t seeing more than 50% of the folks that started with us have success
23:43 with with success with you know very few sort of steps off the track right at the
23:49 end of a six or nine month um intervention what I like to say is we know what to do we just need to do more of it so with
23:55 respect to shelter and housing and Supportive Services that’s one big
24:01 traunch of what’s needed in the region the other big traunch of what’s needed in the region is inpatient psychiatric bed
24:09 capacity um our region lost access to the Oregon state hospital for civil
24:14 committed people meaning people who haven’t committed a crime they’re just really unwell psychiatrically and they need a period of three to six possibly
24:21 longer months um to get stabilized get medicated um and then to be re have the
24:29 opportunity to re-enter the community in environments that are secure residential treatment facilities and um we certainly
24:36 and I do not believe in long-term institutionalization with rare exception and and for those people unfortunately
24:42 that’s a necessity but the vast majority of individuals um are very successful with that continuum but the problem for
24:49 our community has been the lack of access to the Oregon state hospital and that means about 500 to 550 people that
24:55 live in this region per year have not been served on an annual basis and those individuals get pressed back out into
25:02 the community they occupy hospital beds they struggle to succeed those folks
25:08 need um access to inpatient Psychiatric Services and then also secure
25:13 Residential Treatment Facility beds all of which are on the docket to potentially be funded in the next long
25:20 session and um we’re really optimistic to see that coming out as uh published
25:26 in the Oregon Health Authorities report Director Clark recently a couple months ago um you know was very specific
25:32 about the need for residential beds across the state recognizing that one third of the Medicaid population of our
25:38 state live in the Tri-County areas of Portland yeah very hopeful because we
25:43 cannot I think most Oregonians feel we can’t continue doing what we’re doing we
25:48 need to change that story and change that narrative and it does start with with leaders like you but then it’s the
25:55 next-gen and talk to me about how you’re building the next leadership because
26:01 this is a long-term play this is not going to happen next year or five years it it the conversation needs to continue
26:09 that’s exactly right so um couple layers to that at Central City Concern we
26:15 highly prioritize Learning and Development and and ensuring that we are
26:21 consciously thinking about succession planning so you know how does that show up on a day-to-day basis that’s
26:26 everything from having managers and supervisors you know ensure that they have a place to facilitate meetings
26:32 right um ensure that they are getting the type of facilitation training training on data and analytics um and
26:40 being brought into the discussions around strategic thinking those are very important parts of how we Cascade the
26:47 internal conversations within the organization um a big pillar of that is
26:52 communication right um and have we gotten that correct over the last 5
26:57 years in particular I no but I think we were very successful in communicating our internal strategy around our
27:04 pandemic response and that laid the groundwork to allow us to then start to
27:09 fold in a deeper level of awareness of where we’re going where we’re headed the
27:14 steps that we need to take as an organization to get there and um and our
27:20 our current focus this year is on being a strong and strategic organization
27:25 we’ve actually really needed to strengthen and stabilize um our operations which at times means
27:31 just ensuring that we’re addressing vacancy rates or we’re addressing turnover so it’s very simple um very
27:38 simple actions um but we have to be brave and say you know why do we have
27:43 why do we have a lot of turnover in a particular uh part of our workforce what do we need to know about that and um and
27:50 that that’s that that brings us back to that topic around um burnout and some of those drivers well and it’s interesting
27:57 because again I think what’s happened from the outside perspective truly outside perspective is that a lot of
28:04 Health Care Providers and nonprofits have been very tactical got emergency solve the emergency and it’s interesting
28:12 to see as a citizen that now it’s becoming more strategic and saying again
28:19 this triage you know is not just working we need to look bigger and broader and
28:26 again it comes down to the leadership of the leaders to come up with that
28:32 strategy and things so looking back Andy your 20-year-old self what advice would
28:39 you give yourself I’m going to take a moment on
28:45 that Suzanne just for a second the thing that I would tell myself
28:51 is as follows the number one thing is trust your gut go with your gut
28:58 um that’s not let me down and when I’ve not followed my gut I’ve usually
29:03 regretted it um number two is
29:10 um don’t settle for less or compromise and I think for me there have
29:17 been times in my life both professionally and personally when I have downgraded my
29:24 expectation and um and that has led to um disappointment um and I think on another
29:30 level reflects um how I either have or have not um valued myself prioritized my
29:38 wants and needs in the context of especially I’ll just be transparent interpersonal
29:45 relationship yeah it’s funny how sometime especially with your background I could see how you put others first
29:52 absolutely yes Dr Gabor Mante would say if you want to see the quintessential example of a codependent human being uh
30:00 just picture a family physician yeah because it’s and it’s true about them not you that’s exactly absolutely so the
30:07 podcast hiring for good has a lot of different connotations what does it mean
30:13 to you to me hiring for good is a phrase that makes me think about social impact
30:19 positive social impact and um that’s why I’m so privileged to be here Suzanne and
30:25 have this podcast interview with you today um I think that regardless of
30:31 whether folks are working in the nonprofit sector or folks are working in the for-profit sector um a mentor of
30:38 mine Mark Van Ness and uh Julie Van Ness uh who are the publishers of real leaders magazine say you know people can do well
30:47 while while also doing good um I think that there’s a resonance for me in terms of how do we make the world a better
30:54 place um how do we and and we can do that through so many different lenses is from my perspective it’s about human
31:00 determinance of Health making sure that the world becomes a softer less harsh
31:05 less dangerous place to be um because I think the art of of being human is
31:10 challenging enough as it is so how can we be a little softer how can we look after each other a little bit more and I
31:16 think the narrative that I’m going to continue to bring forward is is a really important one and it is that um doing
31:23 the right thing for people typically costs less there are a lot of Neo-Calvinists out there that might you know
31:30 push back on that but we’re going to prove that we’ve already got early data that’s reflecting that meeting the human
31:36 determinance of health of housing food security um Health Care helping people
31:42 who are less fortunate um who are struggling with challenges do better
31:48 saves everybody money and makes Society a a better safer warmer place to be boy
31:55 I think on that note we should end it because that was beautiful and again
32:00 such hope truly and and I am so excited again to see the next you know couple
32:08 years how this conversation and I would love to have you back in a few years and we can kind of then look at of saying
32:16 wow look at what we’ve done so Andy thank you so much again Dr Andy Mendenhall
32:23 from City Central Concern I don’t know why I just stammered on that one um but thank
32:30 you very much for being here. My honor Suzanne thanks so much for your feedback and the opportunity wonderful thanks for
32:37 joining us today at hiring for good if you inspired by our conversation don’t forget to like follow and subscribe
32:43 wherever you get your podcast and if you want to learn more about our executive Search Services check us out at
32:51 www.hiringforgood.net or our company website Acumen Executive Search thanks so
32:57 much and and don’t forget to join us next time for another in-depth conversation about transformational leadership till then have fun