Hiring for Good is a podcast exploring the transformative power of leadership and what happens when the right person takes the job. Thank you for tuning in to this episode with our guest Paul Delvecchio, CEO and co-founder of Ethos Companies.
Topics Discussed:
-From Engineering to Entrepreneurship – Paul shares his path from construction and global real estate strategy at the U.S. State Department to co-founding and leading Ethos Companies.
-Building “Small Big Deals” – Insights into how Ethos brings institutional sophistication to mid-market development, brokerage, and property management projects.
-Hiring with Purpose – Why credentials matter, how values and cultural fit come into play, and what “Hiring for Good” means when aligning talent with organizational mission.
Ethos Companies Website: https://ethoscompanies.com/
Hiring For Good Website: https://www.hiringforgood.net/
Acumen Executive Search Website: https://www.acumenexecutivesearch.com/
Hiring for Good is presented by Acumen Executive Search. Acumen Executive Search is the leading certified woman-owned Executive Search and advisory Firm on the West Coast. Acumen sources, attracts, and qualifies world-class executive and management talent for organizations to support them in achieving their organizational goals. Due to their focus and local network, which is both broad and deep, we are able to leverage best practices across a broad range of industries. We employ an equity lens throughout the recruitment process.
Hiring for Good Transcript
0:00 Good morning. I’m Tanis Morris and with me as usual is my lovely co-host Suzanne
0:05 Hanifin of Acumen Executive Search. Hello. Hello Tanis. Nice to see you today. And we are very
0:11 excited to be joined on the podcast this morning by Paul Delveio, CEO at Ethos
0:17 Companies. Paul brings a unique blend of engineering expertise, real estate
0:22 strategy, and public sector insight to his work in development and investment across the Pacific Northwest. Paul’s
0:29 career spans leadership roles at firms like AECOM, Gansa USA, and the US
0:34 Department of State, where he worked on global real estate strategy, including land acquisitions for new embassies and
0:40 cons consulates. He also has led major urban development projects in the private sector, managing several million
0:47 square feet of multifamily, commercial, and hotel real estate. Paul holds advanced degrees in engineering
0:52 management and international finance, is a licensed professional engineer, principal broker in Oregon and
0:58 Washington, and a LEED-accredited professional. He’s also deeply involved in civic work serving on boards that for
1:05 focus on housing, urban growth, and social impact. We’re thrilled to have Paul with us today to share his insights
1:12 on how smart hiring intersects with smart development. Paul, thanks for coming.
1:17 Thanks for having me. Yeah, we’re really excited to have you here um for a number of different reasons. I’ve had the
1:24 pleasure of having you kind of share your story with me in the past. Um we
1:29 always kind of lead with um having you tell your journey of how you kind of got
1:34 to where you are now. And I’ll add on to that question if you want to explain what it means to be the CEO of the Ethos
1:42 Companies in addition to kind of how you how you got there. Sure. Yeah, I’ll answer those questions
1:47 backwards. Um, Ethos Companies are are three firms. Um, they’re
1:54 intertwined by ownership and by values and to a certain extent the kind of
2:00 market positioning. Um, the first one uh was I founded and later took on a
2:06 partner uh Josh Bean who’s generally my business a partner across all these things. Um, is Ethos Development. It’s
2:12 11 years old and what it does is uh development and acquisition of of
2:18 buildings um market rate generally for a profit but uh when we’re building we
2:24 also typically have another goal in mind be it um you know affordable housing or
2:29 energy efficiency or you know pushing on some sort of uh unique code
2:35 interpretation or something like that. So usually has another another goal. Um, Ethos Commercial Advisers was formed
2:40 about a year later. Uh, Josh runs the day-to-day of that one. I’m president of Ethos Development. Um, Ethos Commercial
2:48 Advisors is a brokerage firm that does um several things as most brokerage firms
2:54 do. It um agency leasing, which is leasing on account of an owner that owns
2:59 a building. Uh, tenant representation, which could be leasing a a space or um
3:05 purchasing a space. Uh it does debt and equity financing which is somewhat unique for a smaller firm. Uh so we you
3:12 know do mortgage brokerage um and can place equity on larger deals. And that service you know spans from you know
3:18 small million-doll loan up to I think probably in the mid60s was our largest capitalization. Um and uh we have an
3:26 office and investment sales. I think it meant that’s another service selling a building that you own in investment
3:31 property. Uh we have an office in Portland. We have an office in Tacoma, Washington, and Dallas, Texas for for
3:38 that business. And then the last one is Meredith Property Group, which um we acquired most of a few years ago. Uh it
3:46 was previously named Venerable Properties, and it’s a it was a well-known um historic restoration
3:52 redevelopment firm in Portland that was founded in 1991. um as its partners. One of them
3:57 unfortunately died and and the other one um yeah as his career went on wasn’t
4:02 interested in in working as much and um it stopped developing and became a management platform. Um so that’s
4:08 primarily what we do with that business. Um so it it manages about 1.2 2 million
4:14 square ft of um office, retail, and industrial mostly in the Portland MSA
4:21 and um bit over 3,000 housing units. And that’s between Tacoma, uh Portland, MSA,
4:30 and we have an office in um Branson, Missouri for that business. A client brought us there, and we’re interested
4:36 in the Midwest in generally. So, we’re looking to kind of move that presence north. So, that’s what that means. and I
4:42 serve a kind of a different purpose across each business line. Um about me,
4:48 the first part of my question, um so I I came into this through
4:54 construction. Um and that’s something that was in my
4:59 family. My dad was a contractor uh and developer and um you know, so was my
5:05 mom’s father. Um, so it’s something I’ve I’ve been around and you know, my father
5:12 wasn’t actually super thrilled about me going in this direction. Uh, he really valued the idea of, you know, a degree
5:19 and and and a license and having a more professional job. Um, not to say that
5:24 being an entrepreneur isn’t being a professional, but kind of a professional in the literal sense or or kind of
5:30 classical sense like a lawyer or an accountant or an engineer, someone that holds a license. And um so I I did that.
5:38 I went to school for uh engineering um civil and uh yeah it’s funny with real
5:47 estate development people say it all comes down to parking which is often true you know like what how much how much you know area you can build on a
5:54 site or how much occupancy you can have or whatever often comes down to cars which is something especially in a place
5:59 like Portland people don’t like to admit but is very true. My whole career basically comes down to parking. Um, I
6:05 lived in a building in Washington DC that it was a condo building and I was
6:11 renting from an owner and I had a car and it was hard to find a place for the car. So, I asked the building manager,
6:17 you know, about the few spaces that were behind the building and he said those were all leased by the construction
6:23 company that was building the building next door. So, you know, I didn’t take
6:29 that as a no. So, I just went there and asked, you know, hey, I see that you guys are using these spaces, but not on
6:35 the weekends. Is there a way that I could use these spaces on the weekends? Um, and they said, no, they’re for employees, and we can’t really have
6:41 somebody in here. And I said, well, can I have a job? I love the story. And, uh, I mean, I literally could get
6:48 into their office by going into the stairwell. I lived on the third floor and just going down a few flights and popping out. Um,
6:54 and you know, they kind of, the guy looked at me. I happened to interface with someone that’s kind of high level.
6:59 Because he was the person that was there when I walked in. Yeah. Said, “Well, I’m an engineering student. You know, I’m a junior. This isn’t
7:04 crazy. You know, I am interested in this.” And they said, “Sure.” So, I acquired a job, a parking
7:12 spot, and ultimately a career. Um, park. Uh, and that’s, you know, that kind of how that put me on a totally different
7:18 arc than had I, you know, gone and gotten a, you know, internship with an engineering firm. Um, so that was the
7:25 beginning of of my arc and I I kind of worked that was and the company was big. It was Bovis Lend lease which has been
7:31 since renamed but it’s it’s a global leader. Um, we were working on a Ritz Carlton hotel condominium project. One
7:38 of similar has just gone up in Portland. Um, great experience. Uh, it’s a
7:44 downtown one in Washington DC if anybody knows the area. Not the Georgetown one. Yeah. Um and uh I went to George
7:50 Washington. It was near near that school. Um I ended up getting a trustees
7:56 fellowship for a master’s degree in engineering management at GW. And um Bovice wanted to put me somewhere
8:05 in the suburbs for the next job. Didn’t work for going to school. Yeah. So I ended up going to work for a local contractor. Okay.
8:11 Um Dano Construction. Uh kind of family-owned firm. Um I don’t know. I’d
8:17 liken it to R&H or something like that. You’re in the Portland market. Bigger because it’s DC, but same same basic
8:23 idea. So, I worked, you know, I think in their building services division, so small projects, interesting stuff. I
8:28 actually worked on some foreign embassies. Oh, wow. On little little things like the redo of
8:34 a pond at the Japanese ambassador’s residence. Oh my god. Fun little things. Um uh but I I did my
8:42 masters while I was there and very much appreciated the kind of family nature of that experience.
8:48 Um when I was done with the masters, I went to work for um AECOM in uh third
8:54 party construction management, not engineering, although it’s an engineering firm. Okay. Had some cool experiences there. Um,
9:02 most notably I worked on a renovation of a hotel in Arlington, Virginia.
9:09 Um, which was adjacent to the Pentagon. Um, and I actually saw the plane hit the Pentagon.
9:15 Oh my gosh. Um, the building was on Columbia Pike and that that is the route that the plane took. And I remember my boss and I
9:22 were the only two people staffed. Everybody else on the job were contractors and uh the hotel was
9:27 operational and at that moment Christy Todd Whitman who is the director of the EPA was in our building
9:34 uh doing you know for a conference. Holy cow. And so there were secret service people everywhere. Yeah.
9:39 Um that you know the painters were we happened to be on upper floors and the painters were screaming there was a
9:45 plane. We went to look out the window and saw it. thought it was coming in a building and actually til you know turn
9:50 had to turn um you know to get the wing out of the way of our building uh and
9:55 then you know everybody runs across to the other side and it hits the Pentagon. Um oh my god.
10:01 But actually that turned out to be a big deal because when it turned back the wing hit the ground. Yeah.
10:06 Instead and it didn’t Yeah. So it didn’t hit the building first. Um Right. Also our company Acom had just
10:14 overseen a renovation of there there’s five parts of the Pentagon pent right so
10:19 that quad it’s not a quadrant it’s a quint you know was just renovated which
10:24 included both some reinforcement of the facade but importantly there were very few
10:31 people in it oh my god right because it hadn’t been repopulated so so luckily not that many people were hurt in that um you know in New York it
10:37 was much different and I lost a friend there but um you know it’s it’s uh so anyway so that was sort of a a big deal
10:44 in my career and life. Um I eventually I got recruited to work for
10:50 a development company uh as a construction manager. So sort of same thing I was doing just
10:56 for a company rather than you know a contracted service. Um and that you know is is really
11:01 formative you know the closest thing I added to to a mentor were the two principles of that company. um uh
11:09 Michael Michael Darby and Jeff Neil, one of whom kind of became a little bit famous because his second wife was on a
11:15 Real Housewives. Fun side to fun fact. Um but uh you know very gregarious guy.
11:24 Um yeah, so I I worked in construction management there and then development management and I ended up kind of
11:30 running the residential development component of the company. Um, it was
11:35 when we, you know, it was boom times. It was the early 2000s in DC. I think it was the second most active condo market
11:41 to Las Vegas in the country. And we were the most active condo developer. Just tons of stuff happening. You know,
11:48 you could there were lines out the door to buy condos. You could basically set the prices in advance and
11:54 knew what was going to be. I mean, it was really unique times for developing things. Um, I learned a lot and um, one
12:00 of our main finance years was Le Leman Brothers. Yeah. And um we you know I I had a desire to
12:08 get back to New York. I’m from Eastern Long Island and Leman’s based in New York and uh I got to know them well and
12:16 I I kind of perceived that the industry was a ladder and I was in
12:21 development but being in equity was higher on the ladder. I I think I know better now. I mean, it’s a different job
12:27 and I don’t know that I’m suited for that part of the industry or best suited, I should say. But, um, at the
12:33 time, I mean, it seemed like like a good idea. So, I worked out an arrangement to
12:38 go there, but I, you know, they said you should go get a finance degree or an MBA or something prior because you’re going
12:43 to hit a ceiling kind of with a more engineering oriented background. So, I did. I went to um, Spain. I got a a
12:52 degree at Institute Empressa which is a a well- reggarded business school in Europe. The reason for Europe was the um
12:59 it’s shorter basically, right? It’s it’s it’s a little more than a year. The hours are the same. So, it’s a more
13:07 compressed week. So, you’re going to school, you’re in school more while you’re there, and the the summer is shorter.
13:12 Um had a great summer internship there. I worked with a nonprofit that promoted
13:17 women’s business uh participation in in Africa. Oh wow. Kind of there sponsor I worked with some
13:23 women to get put together business plans to get funded. Um interesting. One of them did. It was it was very
13:29 cool. So it was a great experience. Great friends from that. It’s not your typical experience um in that I don’t
13:34 have a network that’s particularly useful for business in the Pacific Northwest, but
13:40 great friends. Yeah. Um I mean I was just in Switzerland two weeks ago and saw um two friends, you
13:46 know, one of whom I was my roommate. Um so yeah, good. It’s worth it’s good life experience.
13:52 Um while I was in school, great financial crisis started, you know, Lehman
13:59 Brothers was no more. Yeah. You know, I didn’t know what to do. Um so, you know, I finished the degree. I
14:04 looked for jobs in Europe. they were paying, you know, like half of what I was making pre- business
14:10 school. It’s like I can’t do this. Um, doesn’t make sense. Uh, so I looked at
14:16 going back to the US and working in in commercial real estate and or development. There really wasn’t such a
14:22 thing, you know, so that’s how I ended up at the State Department. Um there was a a woman um
14:30 who’s now a great friend um Katie Troutman who worked at the State Department and she had previously worked
14:36 for uh HFFF which is now had rolled up into JLL. Um it was a brokerage firm
14:42 their their office was above ours Monument realy office. I knew her from that, but on Facebook, I just saw these
14:50 pictures for years of her in all these weird places, you know, what are you doing in Indonesia or Morocco?
14:55 Yeah. So, I I when I got back to DC, which is where I went back when I finished up MBA, I got with her and said, “What are
15:02 you doing? Like, what is this?” I worked for the State Department. She did leasing. Um I said, “That sounds great.”
15:08 And we literally had a class in school about how to get a job. Yeah. and they said go to the coffee
15:13 shop near and look for the people with the ID badges. So I did all that stuff. Yeah. And I ended up triangulating. I met
15:19 three different people through contacts and it sort of turned out that there is a way to get a government job that’s
15:27 I wouldn’t say easier but more direct than just applying to a black hole. So I got I ended up getting this government
15:34 job um which you know was a non-managerial 14 which doesn’t mean
15:39 anything to most people but it’s very rare um to not have to manage people
15:45 that have a level 14. It only goes to 15 and then SCS which are political
15:50 appointees. Um so it was it was a great job. Um I think for a lot of people it was probably you know the final stop for a
15:57 career. Um I found it super rewarding. I was traveling around buying sites for
16:02 embassies and consulates. I worked in Saudi Arabia, Sri Lanka, Chad,
16:08 um, Congo, Bahrain. Very cool stuff. I got some deals done.
16:14 One was a three-party deal between the country Sri Lanka and we bought property
16:19 from the British government. So there it was, I mean, super complicated. You know, we’re talking about like title that goes back to the
16:24 crown, like wild stuff, and it’s very cool. Um, but there’s, you know, also like strange
16:30 and annoying bureaucracy. Like I once was in um the eastern province of Saudi
16:36 Arabia, worked on a land deal, got something under contract. Um, the government sort of authorizes us to pay
16:44 appraised value, but it’s not so much an authorization, but a
16:49 mandate. Like they don’t they don’t they don’t try to pay less, right? It’s like not how but I was like, I think we can pay less. So,
16:56 it took some work, but I I got them to let me go. There were three contracts, you know, various prices and just real time on the fly meeting
17:02 with the sellers who are, you know, it’s like a royal. There’s a lot of royals there, but it was, you know, a sect of royal family.
17:08 And reading the room, I just pulled out the middle one. I was like, you know, here’s what we can do. And they took it
17:14 and, you know, so I’d saved like, you know, a couple million bucks. Yeah. And I get back and I’m getting beat up
17:19 about a $20, you know, cab ride, you know, cuz the receipt wasn’t right. I’m like, “This is crazy.” You know, again, I just got to spend an hour on
17:26 this. Um, I mean, there’s so many funny stories from that. Like,
17:32 I had it’s a top secret building or the bill, sorry, the building was secret, right? So, the files that were
17:37 classified as secret could be there. So, it’s confidential and secret. And my clearance was higher, but the the
17:42 files couldn’t be in that building. You got a safe at your desk. You could put stuff in it. Um, I didn’t have a key.
17:50 So, I got the desk and there was just a safe and I didn’t know it was in there. And I don’t know. I’m organized mindset.
17:56 I want to know what’s in there and I want it to be clean. Maybe I want to use it. So, I get them I get the security people to open it and they’re like,
18:02 “Okay, it’s on you now.” So, I got to go through this. So, I go through it and I removed everything that was a color. So,
18:07 the green stuff is confidential and the red stuff is is uh secret. And so, I
18:13 Thoughht I’d gotten all the classified files out. They got gave them to the security people. Right now I’m clean and I can get through the rest of the
18:19 garbage later. They sweep the building with some regularity. They’ll try to break into your computer like they you know they’re
18:25 it’s a you know Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. I mean it makes sense, right? So on a sweep they
18:31 go through my files and they found something that was confidential and I got a citation for it and there
18:38 was there’s a big thing in government called acting boss. There’s this guy Mike was my acting boss because my
18:43 actual boss wasn’t there at the moment. He got he got on me about it. You know, I took an earful from him and then I
18:48 finally got the paperwork and it was he had gotten a violation 10 years
18:54 earlier and it was his desk and the the classified document was appended to his violation because it was
19:00 the document he had left on his desk overnight. Oh my god. I mean this is like classic stuff. So the amount of time spent on all this,
19:06 you know, like for this old document, um yeah, it’s just it was like
19:12 I just couldn’t it was too much process and I was too goal oriented. So, I ended up leaving. Uh, great experience, you
19:18 know, and I I went back to New York, worked on, uh, family business with my cousin for a year or so in the garment,
19:24 you know, apparel industry. Met my now wife Lisa. We moved to the West Coast to be closer to her family and sort of
19:31 that’s when the um, story with Ethos started. Yeah. I probably one of the most
19:37 interesting backstory. I’m like, wow. I mean, yeah. And again, it’s so common with a lot of our our especially
19:44 entrepreneurs that nobody had a straight path. Your your career has gone left,
19:50 right, left, right? I mean, like it is all over the place. And you kind of mentioned these formative experiences.
19:59 What really was it just you taking chances and taking opportunities or was
20:06 there some mentoring or guidance from others that helped you along this way?
20:11 I don’t think that I was um I had the mentality or risk tolerance or
20:18 risk-seeking gene to be an entrepreneur. I think that I totally misread Portland.
20:25 So when we came here there was a lot it was in 2014 there was a lot of development happening. Yeah. So that there are people doing what I
20:31 do. There should be a job for me here. I was more in the mindset of be you know you can make you can have a good career and
20:37 make a lot of money working at in development for a company. Yeah. Um you can become an equity shareholder
20:45 and you can get a piece of the upside and it’s not a bad deal. And that’s kind of how I thought I would be going. And
20:52 um it turned out that I was maybe a little too senior experience-wise and possibly too
20:58 expensive for the smaller companies like regional companies and for the bigger interests that might
21:04 have an office here or try to be doing projects here. I wasn’t wellletorked enough to be their local managing director.
21:09 It was a kind of a weird middle ground. Scansa took me on and I worked for Scansa for a little under a year. Um,
21:14 but it was in construction estimating and sales and I was kind of working with their Seattle development group,
21:21 commercial development group, but the kind of Seattle Portland thing wasn’t wasn’t working that well
21:26 internally. And they ultimately said like, “Hey, you can just move up here. Um, we’d be happy to have you.” And that
21:31 wasn’t right for us because we had settled now in in Portland. And so it was almost like it was the option
21:39 if I wanted to be doing this kind of work. Mhm. Um I found a site near my house in Northeast. I lived in um kind of
21:45 Hollywood Grant Park and I found a site um on Fremont 46 in Fremont and you know
21:51 did it and it was the smallest building I’d ever worked on. I’d never worked out anything that was made out of wood.
21:56 Um you know I’d never raised money before. I’d never signed a loan guarantee before. That’s a kind of huge limiting factor for people that are
22:02 looking to develop or sponsor is what is your balance sheet and can it support the loan? Um, I had to get a co- uh the
22:09 contractor signed on it as well. Um, so you know that it was there were some
22:16 big leaps in there. So it wasn’t about the technical process of underwriting what should go there, determining what
22:22 kind of building it’s going to be, what are the finishes, how do you lease it up, like that was sort of ordinary for me. It was
22:28 the the business component of it. Where does the money come from? What’s the capital structure? Um, you know, when’s it going to be
22:35 sold? How are you splitting profits? I mean, there’s there’s a lot that goes into the deal side of things that I’d
22:41 been exposed to, but it wasn’t my job um previously. So, um interestingly though,
22:48 that wasn’t that the success of getting that going wasn’t enough for me to get
22:53 the memo. I still pursued jobs. Oh, wow. Um so I was talking to a local
22:59 industrial um ownership development and ownership platform really you know well regarded great people
23:05 and they wanted me to kind run construction for them the the group and I you know it was
23:11 I was all for it. I thought it was a great idea you know and ultimately you know they’re like well what are you doing now? I was like well I’m doing this you know you can’t you’re going to
23:18 you can’t we can’t hire you with this right like that’s what that’s the tr that’s the choice you made. Yeah. Um so you know it was the divided
23:25 interests were too much and um so that sort of put me on a path to just do more of it. So so now at that point you know okay so
23:33 now you have your own you know organization. I’m so curious to hear or
23:38 you know you like how how have all of these experiences you know working for government working for big development
23:45 being entrepreneurial by default or by or by through intention whatever it is you know how
23:52 What are your like closely held values and how do you operationalize them as a
23:58 leader as a you know as a leader for people on your team as a leader for you know the people investing with you or
24:05 working with you? Yeah, it’s interesting. So you qualified that moment as us having an organization or making
24:11 it wasn’t it was a deal. And I think that’s actually what’s interesting about not so much the property management
24:16 business but that came later but brokerage and development.
24:21 It’s I don’t want to say easy, but most people that are good at it are good at
24:27 doing deals. So, you can put together a deal and execute the deal. And there are a lot of folks that just do that, right? They can
24:32 work out of their house. And brokerage, you know, teams don’t have to really operate the
24:38 business per se because the firm does that. They’re just worried about their deals. Taking that and operationalizing
24:44 it and making a business out of it is another step. Totally. Right. And it takes a level of sort of
24:50 organization and planning that I think I was pretty well suited for. I think that’s actually that
24:56 transition is what I think was somewhat unique about us. Um because there are a lot of folks that
25:03 do some deals and they do a good job. So I mean I’m going to dial it back for just a second because that is so
25:09 interesting. Um, my my family is in commercial development, commercial real estate development. And I am interested
25:16 like when you said that, it kind of triggered something in me because I was thinking, you know,
25:21 you’re like, we didn’t necessarily have an organization yet. We’re making a deal. Even in a deal, you’re a leader. Yes.
25:28 You know, so so like it’s a different, you know, you might not be leading a team, but you’re leading an operation
25:34 and you’re leading other people. You know, it’s it’s both more complex and
25:39 and then maybe more simple. Sure. Yeah. Each each development project and that first one I think was
25:45 maybe a 12 or$13 million project. Our largest one now
25:50 maybe in the mid70s or something like that. So if you think about that like you you are for each of these projects you are
25:59 creating a business plan you’re capitalizing it um you’re executing and um maybe there’s
26:07 a period where you’re operating right so you’re you’re building or buying and and making changes improvements and
26:13 operating and then disposing. Yeah. So it’s not different from an operating
26:19 business. I think that the difference is that things really only happen once. Yeah. Um it’s not that you’re creating the
26:24 widget over and over. You created one widget. Totally. Um but it so it’s I think you know validating what you’re saying that yes
26:30 there is a component to running a business within that. And you know I
26:37 what I like what all of our business is about all three of them is taking
26:42 institutional sophistication and making it available to the mid-market. That’s that’s one of the values that we carry
26:50 through the the businesses and um that
26:55 was front of mind for me at the beginning because it’s my background was
27:00 working with on big projects in a big market with big
27:05 equity. Mhm. Um, so we worked with Apollo and Carile, Leman, like, you know, household name
27:10 private equity firms and I learned from my, you know, the guys that own my company and their partners
27:19 how to do this. So, my how to do this wasn’t um, we built and still do small big deals, not
27:26 big small deals. And the differences show up in
27:32 fit and finish. They might show up in reporting. They might show up in how you capitalize. It might show up in how you
27:38 you know make your deal with capital. Um you know kind of the financial structure. So I think and that and so
27:44 that’s something that we carry through and you know some of our other folks u
27:49 you know there’s a partner at our brokerage firm that you know came from HFF the same firm that my my friend from
27:55 the state department was at um so same same idea we’re bringing you know kind of this higher level higher order
28:01 thinking it’s hard for um regional and local firms to get actual institutional
28:08 business because um you’re competing with national relationship ship and things like that on the brokerage side
28:14 as possible on the sponsorship side like we we also work with Carl now um but it you know it’s it’s um in
28:21 principle and others right so we’re we’re kind of getting there on the on the sponsorship side but that was the
28:27 idea and and you know beyond that I mean it’s things that I’d like to think are obvious but I’ve learned are not which
28:34 is you know integrity uh clarity of intentions you
28:40 know um there’s you know there’s things that um you we’ve had disputes with
28:45 various contractors and partners along the way here which is unfortunately
28:50 more normal than not and you know you learn like the not everyone is seeing the world that way.
28:56 Um so um so I think some some of the basics plus plus uh there was there was
29:02 a concept to kind of how this was formulated. Yeah. And so when you take this idea of really kind of upscaling and up
29:11 mid-market with with again larger institutions and backgrounds and ideas
29:17 and thoughts, how do you then translate that into hiring internally?
29:22 Uh hiring people for our business. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s that’s interesting. I mean I you know I think
29:28 that you can go down a bunch of roads with that. Part of it is credentials.
29:34 Um, you know, we’ve for the development team, there’s not a
29:40 big team, but the people that work there are very qualified. Um, and have, you
29:48 know, great pedigree. They’re not, you know, we have done some step up type
29:54 hires. Um, they haven’t worked out as well as I’d like. So, they’re just, you’re just not cutting corners, I
30:00 think, is is part of it. And um for that team we have never advertised. It’s
30:06 always relationship based and slow. So you know we’ll talk to somebody for 6
30:12 months. Wow. Um so but it it’s interesting because like what you’re mentioning is you know kind
30:18 of hiring based on credentials but then you’re saying it’s a six-month cycle. So like I would imagine you’re spending
30:24 time getting to understand if their values align or if they’re going to be a good fit. So, you know, which would you
30:30 weigh more heavily? Well, I think it’s sequential. You don’t you’re not digging into the relationship
30:36 part if there wasn’t. Right. Right. Yeah. So, so the qualifier is the credentials and
30:42 the pedigree and then you’re people that you know we know from other
30:49 relationship. They work somewhere else that we’re we’re familiar with or we have worked with them in some way.
30:54 Um the development team is very small. development teams tend to be small because most of the really what you’re
31:01 what you’re leveraging is capitals and and we we work with uh we have a syndication
31:06 group so people might know friends and family kind of country club type money
31:11 um I think we probably have you know 300 individual investors or something
31:16 um but we also work with institutional um equity partners so funds
31:23 um which is somewhat unique I mean generally there’s a fork in the road for and we do both depending on the project size
31:29 and type and sometimes mix them. So there’s there’s uniqueness in that. Um
31:36 but that’s really what you’re scaling. Um you know we outsource most of our construction management work.
31:42 Um so that’s you know we can scale up relatively easy and the cost of that is borne by the project. So you can keep it small.
31:49 Yeah. Um there’s 120 people across the organization in total and at development there’s three.
31:54 Okay. Right. just just for scale, right? Yeah. No, that that’s makes sense. So, you know, it’s a brokerage
32:02 um I think it’s about 15 or so, maybe 17 in that space uh between the offices um and the
32:10 restaurant and property management. Makes sense. So, I think the learning in what you’re asking about Suzanne for us uh has been
32:16 on the property management side where it is much more hiring intensive. you’re constantly hiring and like it’s we’ve
32:23 kind of reverted to a similar style where um it does root there’s some
32:29 connection to people and we’re hiring people from well-known well- reggarded platforms uh we have
32:36 tried kind of the step up thing and it it didn’t go as well as we’d have liked so I think that’s the sort of thing that
32:42 maybe we’ll do internally less you know less externally um so it’s if you had somebody with high
32:48 potential and they came in X role and you want them to be Y ro you you help you help build that inside rather than
32:55 hire hiring hiring the for the jump. Um well it’s so interesting because you’ve done so many things you know I’m really
33:03 curious to ask you our next question which is what advice would you give to
33:08 your younger self? Honestly now knowing where I ended up
33:14 I regret not just doing it earlier. Oh, but you had all these amazing experiences. Oh, totally. Yeah. I mean, I I actually
33:21 remember I was about 35 in a bar with somebody and I said, “If I died now, I’d be happy.” And people, you know, they
33:27 were really challenging me on it. I said, “Well, you know, I’ve lived three or four lives.” Like, you know, I’ve done all this stuff. I wasn’t married at
33:33 the time. I didn’t have any kids. So, like kind of that category of why to live didn’t exist. Um, but it, you know, it uh
33:40 so sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if I had done this earlier, then I wouldn’t have had some of the experiences that maybe
33:46 make me better at what I do. So, sure. Yeah. I mean, that’s, you know, it’s a reasonable light push back on that on
33:52 that point, but it takes time to mature a business. And now I’m looking at my age. I’m 47. I
34:00 don’t want to work forever. So, how much can I do in the next 10 years,
34:06 you know, and and I wish there were 20, right? There isn’t. Oh, there is. there if you calm down if
34:13 you love what you do. But that’s funny because I was going to ask you this earlier. You mentioned the Midwest
34:19 interest. What is your your 10year pie in the sky goal?
34:24 Yeah. So, um when we think about strategy, uh there’s really two separate
34:31 strategies. the brokerage firm, while it works with uh kind of development and property
34:38 management, they’re they’re their strategies aren’t intrinsically linked.
34:43 Um, and we’re we’re really focusing on the Texas market with that business. I
34:48 mean, I hate to say it, we are sitting in Portland. We’re in a beautiful space. There’s not a lot of uh near-term future
34:54 for people that do what we do here. um you know when you think about
35:00 brokerage I mean that to the extent that things are even leasing or selling they are leasing or
35:05 selling for much less than they used to be um you know it’s not it’s not great it’s not a great moment for brokers
35:12 and you know we’re seeing what’s possible in other markets because we are there and that that looks good so
35:19 um so there’s you know there’s some eyes on other places I mean we are also here it’s not going to go away but
35:25 um we need we need to to fan out a little bit um for operations kind of the
35:30 the um property management company and the development company. Those two
35:36 really run together. Um and
35:41 you know, we’re we’re in Missouri. We’re thinking about, you know, how do we how do we leverage that? Do we want to be
35:47 owners in that market? I’m not sure, but there are other nearby markets that are interesting. And I I think for us um
35:54 there’s a a few Texas cities that are interesting. Um we like uh kind of Fagatville. Part of that’s personal.
36:01 There’s Bentonville is nearby and there’s a big mountain bike um center which is interesting to me. It’s one of the things I like to do.
36:07 Um but it’s also sort of it’s got a lot of growth. It’s you know there’s
36:12 university there is backed by the Waltons. I mean it’s there’s there’s a lot to be said about that region. um
36:18 kind of politically then leads to um you know the legislative environment leads
36:24 to it’s a better place to operate. Yeah. Um so that’s interesting. Um you know there’s other parts of the Midwest that
36:30 are interesting. Um Minneapolis is interesting and you know there’s there are other markets. We we haven’t kind of
36:37 concluded uh kind of a market study exercise that we’re doing, but ultimately we’re going
36:42 to pick another place and spend some time there and and and start to build out um you know, ownership
36:50 uh platform there. Uh property management really just needs X units to be worthwhile to operate in,
36:57 get licensed and do it. And I mean like Phoenix is an example of a place we’d love to be managers, but I’m really not
37:02 interested in in owning. Yeah. Um, so you know that there may be a fork in the road on management goes here
37:09 but ownership doesn’t. But in general as a growth trajectory, you know, we’re trying to hit um I I
37:16 would like Merida Property Group to be um kind of a top 50 US firm inside of 10
37:23 years. Okay. Um which is about a 10x in residential units under management
37:29 or so. Um and I think it’s possible. I think we have a great team to do it. We’ve hired people that I think are far
37:36 more qualified than the current current um firm size would would imply is necessary and that it’s for that.
37:43 Yeah. Um so getting everybody you know getting the systems right, getting the incentives right and you know getting
37:50 the team you know focused on the growth you know is I think probably a 2026 thing and um so that’s that’s where I’d
37:58 like that to go and then you know the ownership platform becomes some part of that right. So you know what is it 10 10% or you know x% of of that growth is
38:05 our internal growth. That makes sense. Yeah. No that’s exciting. So we always end this conversation with the same
38:11 question because you know this is a podcast on called hiring for good. So when you look at again this 10-year mark
38:19 and and all this and hiring and scaling. What does hiring for good mean to you?
38:25 Yeah I mean there’s you know the obvious word play there right? Yeah, it’s like is it hiring for permanence or is it
38:30 hiring for for, you know, pro prosperity or is it hiring for that was very
38:37 clearly, you know, that was Yeah. Um, yeah, he’s been spending a lot of time with our 5-year-old on that. He he
38:42 caught on to the idea recently that words can mean multiple things, so he keeps pointing them out, you know, come running out of his room saying, “I got one, you know.”
38:48 Yeah. Um, yeah, duty is a funny one. So, um, you know, for for him, uh, you
38:55 know, for for hiring for good, it’s it’s, uh, I would like to think
39:00 permanence, but it’s just not true. It never is, right? Like, you don’t know what part of someone’s arc you’re going
39:07 to be part of, right? You know, and as long as
39:13 their growth trajectory, you know, is meaningful at the time when they’re with you, that’s okay, right? like nothing I
39:20 don’t think anything is permanent. Um you know we’re all transitioning to from something to something and you know if
39:26 somebody ends up running their career out with us and that is rewarding for them and it
39:32 worked for us that’s great but I don’t think that that’s a an assumption or a prerequisite. I mean
39:39 in some ways that may actually limit you quite a bit in who you’re getting. Um,
39:45 so, you know, I think it’s I think um I will interpret it mostly as um kind of a
39:53 cultural fit, right? you know, it’s a it’s a good fit in that what this person
39:58 wants to do overlaps with what the company’s charter is for that period of time, you know,
40:06 and and ultimately, I mean, our our business in at least uh the majority of
40:11 it on the on the um management side and the part that I participate most in is housing. Um that that is that as an
40:18 endeavor, you know, it’s a it’s kind of one of our basic needs. It’s right there for Maslo, right? And I don’t know what,
40:24 you know, food. I think it’s number two. It might even number one.
40:30 So, it’s it’s uh you know, there’s all kinds of health outcomes tied to housing and all this stuff. So, there’s there’s,
40:36 you know, it’s important and uh we want to do it well and we want people to be
40:42 happy and in their homes and and thrive. And in order to do that, the buildings
40:48 need to be good, the management needs to be good. Um, so I think that the the, you know, and there’s culture that
40:53 underpins that, you know, so how why are why and how are we doing this stuff. So getting people that that tie into the
41:01 why and the how for the period that they’re there, I think is is how I’d interpret the
41:06 hiring for good. We’re ending with a trifecta meaning. Thank you. That’s wonderful. Honestly,
41:13 um, not I I value your answer. I just think it’s funny you kind of took us on
41:20 a journey from well maybe not permanence but you know good fit good purpose and
41:27 then for permanence for while they’re there you know. So it’s kind of like maybe one of the best answers we’ve had for really encompass encompassing um
41:35 everything that we intended that the the title of the podcast could be. So thank you. That’s like perfect summation.
41:42 Yeah. Well, Paul, thank you so much for sharing your insights with us today and
41:47 um this was really good. Yeah. Yeah. Um I really appreciate you
41:53 being here. I knew when we first had the chance to meet um I I really value the
41:59 way that your brain works and I was excited to have the chance to to share share it with our audience. So, thanks
42:06 so much. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks so much for having me. It’s great to see you both. Yeah. Thanks for joining us today at Hiring for Good. If you were inspired by
42:12 our conversation, don’t forget to like, follow, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want to learn
42:18 more about our executive search services, check us out at www.hiringforgood.net
42:25 or our company website, Acumen Executive Search. Thanks so much, and don’t forget
42:30 to join us next time for another in-depth conversation about transformational leadership. Until then,
42:35 have fun